Chris Carpenter likely out for 2013.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by Superdude

Historical rivalries are overrated. Players change and teams drop in and out of relevance. Call it a big rivalry if you want, but I don't think Molina's getting all fired up about heading to Wrigley.

I agree with this. I laugh at Cardinals fans who think the Cards/Cubs are the biggest rivalry in baseball. Part of what makes a rivalry is that both teams have to be good. For most of the time, the Cubs haven't been good when the Cards were good and when the Cubs made their runs, the Cards were less than spectacular.

Still, there is something between the Cubs and Cardinals that will always be special in the eyes of the respective fan bases.

[Pony Boy]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

And I'm calling BS on that. I go to the STL Today forums all the time and while there are Reds topics on occasion, it's not as widespread as you're making it. It has always been idiots complaining about TLR or how Mozeliak doesn't know what he's doing. I'm on page 7 of the threads in the Cardinals forum there before even a hint of the mention of Reds are on there and that thread was comparing the Reds to the Cardinals. I don't see a ton of disdain there honestly.

It's the off season. Check back in July. Last summer there was a thread on every page with the Reds in the title.

By the way, how many pages did you have to go through before you got to the thread complaining about the Cardinals' bigger rivals the Mets or the Astros?

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by Pony Boy

It's the off season. Check back in July. Last summer there was a thread on every page with the Reds in the title.

By the way, how many pages did you have to go through before you got to the thread complaining about the Cardinals' bigger rivals the Mets or the Astros?

I'm on there all year trying to defend management from idiotic fans and trying to defend Matt Holliday, lol. I very rarely see the kind of disdain on there that I see on here towards the Cards. Sure you get the random discounting of Choo into the Reds lineup but that's quickly dismissed by a lot of people there including me.

EDIT: The only real hate I see towards the Reds is Brandon Phillips and even that's kind of clamped down in recent years. I do see at times random shots at Dusty Baker but I see that here as well.

[757690]

I agree the Cardinal fans don't hate the Reds the way the Reds hate the Cards. But that's only because the Cardinals are much easier to hate. Reds fans don't hate the Cardinals because they are rivals, they hate them because Brandon Phillips was right

[Vottomatic]

Meh. I think the Cards offense has some good young players. Beltran is getting old and showed it in the second half last season.

I'm not sold on all of these young Cardinals pitchers. I think the 2013 season will see alot of adjustments from other teams, and we'll see if the young Cardinals pitchers can adjust.

I think on paper both the Cards and Reds starting pitchers and position players are fairly equal. It's Jocketty's ability to provide depth that will make the difference.

[Danny Serafini]

I can't say I've had any real hatred of the Cardinals myself outside of the past few years. Carpenter/La Russa/Molina et al. have made for a very easy to dislike group, but since a couple of them have already faded away I imagine I'll go back to being ambivalent about them again within a few years, once the team has become a completely different group. Heck, I still have more hate for the Dodgers, and they haven't even been in the same division for ages.

[Salukifan2]

Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds

The Cardinals homerism in this thread is unusually nauseating.

Its a thread about the cardinals. There are currently 2 threads on the ORG about the cardinals that weren't started by cards fans on the board.

I lived in St. louis for 9 years. The only team that the cardinal fans HATE year in and year out no matter the record is the New York Mets.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

If what I'm hearing is true, my response will be "Shelby Miller, son, take the reigns and roll with the opportunity".

Like him or hate him, Carpenter was a heck of a competitor and was a great playoff pitcher. One of the best competitors I've seen wear the Birds on the Bat.

I would actually term him one of the worst competitors and poorest sports to ever wear a Cardinals uniform.

It's sad that someone with his talent had to be such a humongous jackass for his entire career.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by WMR

I would actually term him one of the worst competitors and poorest sports to ever wear a Cardinals uniform.

It's sad that someone with his talent had to be such a humongous jackass for his entire career.

You wouldn't feel that way if he pitched for the Reds. You're talking about a guy who pitched in 2011 the clinching game that put us in the playoffs, an epic game against Roy Halladay that clinched, the clinching game of the NLCS, and the clinching game in game 7 of the WS. No pitcher in the history of divisional play has done that in a single year. He has 10 wins in the post season. He's a guy who had a rib removed and came back early to try to pitch for his team. You don't have to like him and that's fine. However to say he's the worst competitors to ever wear a Cardinals uniform is ridiculous. It's esp. true when you had someone like Kip Wells pitch for the Cardinals organization, lol.

[Salukifan2]

Objectively speaking, if Carpenter is a "humongous jackass" then so is Phillips. Every MLB player poll has him as one of the top 5 most annoying players in the game. Funny how Carpenter never makes that list.

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

Its a thread about the cardinals. There are currently 2 threads on the ORG about the cardinals that weren't started by cards fans on the board.

I lived in St. louis for 9 years. The only team that the cardinal fans HATE year in and year out no matter the record is the New York Mets.

I lived in northern New Jersey for 18 years and I can tell you that Mets fans never cared an iota about the St. Louis Cardinals unless they were playing them in a playoff series.

[Salukifan2]

Originally Posted by Pony Boy

I'm calling b.s. on this entire statement. I occasionally check out Cards message boards (but never post), and Cards fans are clearly more disdainful of the Reds than any other team at the moment. On STLtoday, there is always at least one active thread about the Reds.

Rivalries either grow or they die. The Cards' "rivalry" with the Mets or the Astros or the Royals are not growing, they are dying. Even the Cubs rivalry isnt growing. At the moment the Cards' biggest rival is the Reds. It is apparent from my conversations with Cards fans (I used to live in STL) and from Cards message boards.

Sometime in the future, the Cards or the Reds will fall out of contention and another team will step up in the division. And rivalries will shift again.

Why don't you go onto the actual fan forums like Cardsclubhouse or Birdsonthebat. I like clubhouse but not birds on the bat because its mainly a bunch a facists ganging up on liberals but neither of them are concerned with the reds right now.

Birdsonthebat has one thread about chapman to the roatation that hasn't been discussed in weeks and clubhouse always gives every team in the central their own thread for every season. thats it. There are so many more on redszone about the cardinals

[Salukifan2]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

I lived in northern New Jersey for 18 years and I can tell you that Mets fans never cared an iota about the St. Louis Cardinals unless they were playing them in a playoff series.

My point wasn't that the mets hated the cards but that the cards hated the mets

[757690]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

Objectively speaking, if Carpenter is a "humongous jackass" then so is Phillips. Every MLB player poll has him as one of the top 5 most annoying players in the game. Funny how Carpenter never makes that list.

Really?

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.URF9lRG9KSM

Who is the biggest trash talker?

Orlando Hudson (White Sox), 31%
Nyjer Morgan, (Brewers), 17%
Chris Carpenter (Cardinals), 14%

I can't find a single poll, anywhere that has Phillips on the list of most annoying or hated players.

[Salukifan2]

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...r-in-the-game/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/5...seball/page/21

Phillips and cueto made the BR article. no cards did thugh