Chris Carpenter likely out for 2013.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by 757690

Yeah, I actually admire Carp and the Cards for that. In this day of babying pitchers, I like when they let them pitch when the season is on the line.

He also pitched game 7 of the WS on threes days rest. He actually did that twice that playoffs. It's things like that as to why he's admired in Cardinals nation.

[RedsfaninMT]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

Agree with this. There is no way a healthy Garcia is better than a healthy Arroyo. Puffy, I can see your arguments for the other pitchers but not Arroyo or Westbrook.

Well now you're just confusing me. There is no way a healthy Garcia is better than a healthy Arroyo?

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by RedsfaninMT

Well now you're just confusing me. There is no way a healthy Garcia is better than a healthy Arroyo?

haha I was typing too fast and confused myself. (shocking right?) I meant that the other way around. I fixed my original post

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by Mutaman

Glad to see that the merger has led to some serious discussions: like whether BP is a good guy or not.

Next we can talk about if Jay Bruce is too inconsistent.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Next we can talk about if Jay Bruce is too inconsistent.

What about the "should we keep Dusty" threads?

[camisadelgolf]

If Carpenter isn't pitching this season, the Cardinals have the following rotation:

Adam Wainwright - can he return to All-Star status? will arm health be a concern?
Lance Lynn - was his post All-Star performance a sign of fatigue? was his first-half performance a fluke?
Jaime Garcia - solid lefty starter, but health is a big issue; rehabbing a shoulder injury
Jake Westbrook - has 200+ IP only once since 2007; can he keep enough batters off the base paths?
Joe Kelly - a less-talented version of Mike Leake; needs a solid defense behind him to be successful
Shelby Miller - elite talent--is he ready?

That's still pretty impressive. Losing Carpenter isn't crippling, but the depth would've sure come in handy when you consider the questionable health of Wainwright, Garcia, and Westbrook.

[NCCardfan]

Originally Posted by bigredmechanism

I would like to hate Yadier Molina. I really would. The problem I have is that he is just a fantastic player.

I'll find someone to hate, I just need a little more time.

I have posted this in the Sun Deck so I'll say it again:

When the story about BP calling the Cards "whiny little *****es" and the reporter printed the story on the day of game 1 of that series I was doing some HATING of Brandon Phillips. When he came to bat the next night he tapped Yadi's shin guard to say 'hi' as a lot of players do. The whole Cardinals team got an earful after game 1 and it was fresh on teir mind. Yadi jumped up and said [lip reading here but it's not hard "I'm not your b****!" which started what all of us on both sides knew was going ot happen.

During the off-season between 2010 & 2011 I looked into what BP does on & off the field. I AM NOW A FAN OF HIS. He gives back and is truly just out there having fun, the way baseball is supposed to be played IMO.

I wish we had a 2B like BP & hope Kolton Wong can have something close to his ability. This 'rivalry' can be civilized if the fans want it to be. I do also agree with Mike Thierry that the Reds were not on the Cards radar before 2010, maybe 2009 I guess but in 2004-2006 the Astros were the threat, not the Reds.
Besides, beating up on the cubs is just old by now.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

If Carpenter isn't pitching this season, the Cardinals have the following rotation:

Adam Wainwright - can he return to All-Star status? will arm health be a concern?
Lance Lynn - was his post All-Star performance a sign of fatigue? was his first-half performance a fluke?
Jaime Garcia - solid lefty starter, but health is a big issue; rehabbing a shoulder injury
Jake Westbrook - has 200+ IP only once since 2007; can he keep enough batters off the base paths?
Joe Kelly - a less-talented version of Mike Leake; needs a solid defense behind him to be successful
Shelby Miller - elite talent--is he ready?

That's still pretty impressive. Losing Carpenter isn't crippling, but the depth would've sure come in handy when you consider the questionable health of Wainwright, Garcia, and Westbrook.

To me, Trevor Rosenthal is the wild card. He was groomed in the minor league system as a starter and has three dominant pitches right now. It wouldn't shock if he made the rotation this year.

[Crumbley]

Originally Posted by 757690

Wainwright, Garcia, Westbrook, Lynn, Miller/Rosenthal

That is not a contending teams's rotation, even if the rookies perform as Cardinal fans hope.

This is like saying "Candyman" three times in the mirror. Do not count these horrible yet wildly successful people out.

[Will M]

It seems to me that the Cards have lots of young pitching but they could really use a better #2 starter. Garcia has had shoulder problems . Westbrook is a BOR starter. Lynn's 2nd half was not as good as his 1rst half.I admit I don't know much about Kelly. It be nice for them if they had...
Wainwright (ACE)
#2
Garcia (if healthy)
Westbrook to eat innings.
Lynn
Miller
Rosenthal
etc

that way if Gracia goes down they could go to one of the youngsters. as it is if Garcia goes down (again) and the youngsters struggle there is potential for an ugly season. however they do have the farm system to go out & get a starter midseason via trade.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

Agree with this. There is no way a healthy Garcia is worse than a healthy Arroyo. Puffy, I can see your arguments for the other pitchers but not Arroyo or Westbrook.

Who said anythnig about a "healthy" Garcia? It's very unlikely Garcia pitches healthy all season. Garcia is discounted for his expected health concerns.

Westbrook? I just repeated what you said.

[Salukifan2]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

If Carpenter isn't pitching this season, the Cardinals have the following rotation:

Adam Wainwright - can he return to All-Star status? will arm health be a concern?
Lance Lynn - was his post All-Star performance a sign of fatigue? was his first-half performance a fluke?
Jaime Garcia - solid lefty starter, but health is a big issue; rehabbing a shoulder injury
Jake Westbrook - has 200+ IP only once since 2007; can he keep enough batters off the base paths?
Joe Kelly - a less-talented version of Mike Leake; needs a solid defense behind him to be successful
Shelby Miller - elite talent--is he ready?

That's still pretty impressive. Losing Carpenter isn't crippling, but the depth would've sure come in handy when you consider the questionable health of Wainwright, Garcia, and Westbrook.

Every pitcher has question marks, even the reds pitchers. They currently have alot less than the cardinals, but i don't think the cardinals are as good as the reds so that makes sense.

Pay Joe Kelly a little respect though. HE is far and away more talented than Mike Leake.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

Every pitcher has question marks, even the reds pitchers. They currently have alot less than the cardinals, but i don't think the cardinals are as good as the reds so that makes sense.

Pay Joe Kelly a little respect though. HE is far and away more talented than Mike Leake.

Kelly and Leake were drafted the same year, and Leake's Major League numbers are about as good as Kelly's minor league numbers. What makes you think Kelly is "far and away more talented than Mike Leake"?

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

Every pitcher has question marks, even the reds pitchers. They currently have alot less than the cardinals, but i don't think the cardinals are as good as the reds so that makes sense.

Pay Joe Kelly a little respect though. HE is far and away more talented than Mike Leake.

What exactly do you base that on? Leake is only 7 months older. Here are their MLB rates thus far:

Leake

6.03 K/9, 2.38 BB/9, 1.64 GB/FB, 4.02 SIERA/3.87 xFIP

Kelly

6.31 K/9, 3.03 BB/9, 1.88 GB/FB, 4.12 SIERA/4.03 xFIP


They're basically the same pitcher.

[Caveat Emperor]

On the plus side, I heard that Adam Wainwright is planning on working with Carpenter at Spring Training to get better at shouting when his teammates make mistakes.