Chris Carpenter likely out for 2013.

[wheels]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

There was a good piece from an IU based writer a week or so ago about this.

Basically the thinking was the "Rivalry" in terms of "hatred" really only goes against the more successful team. The more successful team rarely hates the less successful team with nearly the same venom.

You'd rarely hear a "Red Sox suck" chant at Yankee Stadium, especially not in a non Yankees-Red Sox game. But the Yankees suck chant breaks out all the time at Fenway.

Bengals and Browns fans hate the Steelers, but Steeler fans hate Baltimore much more than either Cincinnati or Cleveland because the Ravens have been a much larger thorn in the Steelers side in recent history.

So it wouldn't surprise me if Cardinal fans don't hate the Reds with the same venom that many Reds fans hate the Cardinals. It's not an arrogance thing, but what have the Reds achieved that the Cardinals haven't recently?

The Reds have won a few division crowns but haven't advanced as far as the Cardinals in the last two years.

By any objective measure, the Cardinals are the more successful team historically.

So why would they hate the Reds? Why would they consider the Reds a rival?
Because we're in the same division?
Are the Pirates the Reds rival?

I suppose you could say the Reds have been the most successful challenger to them over the past three years, but three years do not a rivalry make.


*Terms like Hate and rivalry are obviously subjective.

Yeah... Good point, but it's much more fun being subjective in this instance.

[Pony Boy]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

I really think Arroyo is about equal with Westbrook. Both are unreliable except for the fact that they give both of their team innings.

Arroyo is better than Westbrook by just about any measure.

[757690]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Because their fans get to eat real pizza

What are you talking about???? Imo's rocks!!!!

[mdccclxix]

Leake looked outstanding his first 15-20 starts.

[Salukifan2]

Originally Posted by klw

I'm curious. Why do Cardinals fans hate the Mets?

They were two of the top NL teams back in the 80s and because they are New York. And we have had nlcs against them in 2000 and 2006 to rekindle that fire. On top of that they are New York.

All i mean is that the cards-reds rivalry is more dependent on how the two teams are playing. Unlike the series against the cubs and royals. Though both are bad teams they are often a thorn in the cardinals side because those teams take alot of pride in those series, as do the cardinals.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by klw

I'm curious. Why do Cardinals fans hate the Mets?

ugg... Pond Scum

http://www.ksdk.com/sports/article/3...lorful-rivalry

Mets fans are also still bitter about 2006.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by Pony Boy

Arroyo is better than Westbrook by just about any measure.

That's like saying garbage water is better than garbage full of dirty diapers. Both are pretty much the same pitcher right now in their respective careers. I really do not have a high value on any of them. I've never been impressed with Arroyo. He throws junk upon junk while Westbrook throws slop upon slop. I don't think both of them should be counted on as being marque pitchers in a rotation.

[Salukifan2]

Originally Posted by mdccclxix

Leake looked outstanding his first 15-20 starts.

So did westbrook

[Revering4Blue]

Originally Posted by klw

I'm curious. Why do Cardinals fans hate the Mets?

I've noticed it, too. It stems from many years as divisional rivals in the N.L East. From what I can recall, many Cards fans were upset that Keith Hernandez was dealt to the Mets, even though, as it turns out, the reasons for dealing him were justified.

That stated, I'm fairly certain that Generation Y fans do not view the former Cards/Mets rivalry through the same lens as older Cards fans.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

ugg... Pond Scum

http://www.ksdk.com/sports/article/3...lorful-rivalry

Mets fans are also still bitter about 2006.

I dunno, that's about like Reds fans not liking the Dodgers to this day because of their NL West duels. It is really kind of stale at this point.

[westofyou]

Mets fans hate the Yankees and Phillies and Braves

[Salukifan2]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Mets fans hate the Yankees and Phillies and Braves

Never said it was mutual

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

They were two of the top NL teams back in the 80s and because they are New York. And we have had nlcs against them in 2000 and 2006 to rekindle that fire. On top of that they are New York.

All i mean is that the cards-reds rivalry is more dependent on how the two teams are playing. Unlike the series against the cubs and royals. Though both are bad teams they are often a thorn in the cardinals side because those teams take alot of pride in those series, as do the cardinals.

I pretty much agree with you here except the Royals part. I think it's more of a rivalry from that "fanbase" stand point than it is for Cardinals fans. Many Cards fans aren't saying to themselves "boy those dastardly Royals are coming into town. Lets get them!". However when the Cardinals play at Kaufman Stadium, it's always a sold out place (in part because Cardinals fans fill the stadium). I don't see it as a rivalry from a Cardinals fan standpoint.

[Salukifan2]

I think thats because the royals have sucked so much for so long. I think back when Whitey managed them and then came to STL, and then losing the '85 WS created a rivalry. Since then the cards have completely dominated the state which has kind of killed the rivalry i agree.

If they ever field a competitive team again i think it will grow.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

I think thats because the royals have sucked so much for so long. I think back when Whitey managed them and then came to STL, and then losing the '85 WS created a rivalry. Since then the cards have completely dominated the state which has kind of killed the rivalry i agree.

If they ever field a competitive team again i think it will grow.

It may be different going forward because the Astros are in the AL and there will be an interleague game going on every day but I think it's hard to develop a rivalry with an AL team. My only exceptions to that would be the Red Sox and Yankees because the Cards have faced them a ton of times in the World Series, esp. the Yankees.