What hyped team can you see missing the playoffs completely?

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Cardinals and Angels. Just a gut feeling.

Totally agree about the Angels. They feel distinctly like a roster that is less than the sum of its parts.

Hope you are right about the Cards, but I have a feeling they are going to be a constant nemesis for this Reds team. They're just stocked in the minors, and prospects like Miller and Taveras could help even this year. Holliday, Craig, Beltran and Freese should be able to keep the O afloat, and Duncan seems to be able to turn around anyone.

[Boss-Hog]

Originally Posted by RedEye

Duncan seems to be able to turn around anyone.

Assuming you're talking about Dave Duncan, he left with LaRussa, but point still taken.

[Salukifan2]

I gotta agree about the braves. IMO BJ upton is a step down from Bourn, and Justin Upton is, well, justin upton. He's going to underachieve. Uggla is going to really start declining imo, and so is brian McCann. I just don't see Freddi Freeman, Jason Heyward, and the Upton Bros living up to the hype.

Also, Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy won't pitch like they did last year again.

[Ohayou]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

I gotta agree about the braves. IMO BJ upton is a step down from Bourn, and Justin Upton is, well, justin upton. He's going to underachieve. Uggla is going to really start declining imo, and so is brian McCann. I just don't see Freddi Freeman, Jason Heyward, and the Upton Bros living up to the hype.

Also, Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy won't pitch like they did last year again.

Bourn completely disappeared in the 2nd half of the season last year. Assuming BJ can get his OBP back up to a reasonable level, he isn't much of a downgrade TBH. Prado and J. Upton we can, at the very least, call a wash. Uggla is not going to live up to his contract, but he hit 19 HRs and led the league in walks last season. Batting average? Forget about it! McCann's best seasons are likely behind him, but his shoulder is healthy and he should post an OPS around the .800 mark.

[LexRedsFan]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Was going to say Toronto as well. Feels like Florida circa last year.

Funny you say that, since about half their roster played for Florida last year.

[Cant Touch This]

I just hope this thread isn't a jinx of tragic proportions.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

Haven't people been saying that on here for ages now? They've said it every year since I've been a member here. Plus, I don't know how the Cardinals are overrated. People aren't picking them to win the NL Central. The most I've heard from national talking heads is that they're one of those teams that will always be in the discussion at the end of the year. Hardly hype if you ask me.

EDIT: Basically the Cardinals are the Detroit Red Wings of Baseball. You keep expecting them to fall off but they are always in the conversation at the end of the year.

I can absolutely see the Cards missing the playoffs this season. They haven't won the division in the past two seasons and with the exception of an epic collapse and an ill thought of 5th WC team they wouldn't have made the playoffs. They embody the idea of just get into the playoffs and you are dangerous.

I don't think they are better than the Reds, Nats, Giants or Dodgers. In essence I see them competing with the likes of the Braves, DBacks, Phillies, and the likes for a final WC spot. One thing to take into consideration is the Reds, Cards and the rest of the NL central won't have 18 games against the Astros.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

I can absolutely see the Cards missing the playoffs this season. They haven't won the division in the past two seasons and with the exception of an epic collapse and an ill thought of 5th WC team they wouldn't have made the playoffs. They embody the idea of just get into the playoffs and you are dangerous.

I don't think they are better than the Reds, Nats, Giants or Dodgers. In essence I see them competing with the likes of the Braves, DBacks, Phillies, and the likes for a final WC spot. One thing to take into consideration is the Reds, Cards and the rest of the NL central won't have 18 games against the Astros.

I can get on board with what you said but at the same time, I don't know if people can put them in the hype category when most "experts" and media talking heads aren't picking them to win their division.

I also feel that they were sort of unlucky last year in the regular season. Their run differential was that of a 93-95 team and they were near the tops in the majors in blown saves and were god awful in 1 run games. The last two should normalized with a better bullpen. You have to remember that going into last year, they had a bullpen that consisted of Victor Marte, Kyle McClellan, JC Romero, and Fernando Salas. This year, the Cardinals bullpen is light years better with young, power arms going into the season. I don't see them having nearly as many problems as they did last year. My only real question for them is the starting pitching. I question if the young guys can be step it up and fill some spots. They have all the talent in the world but right now they're an unknown. The Cards will still score a ton of runs though.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by Boss-Hog

Assuming you're talking about Dave Duncan, he left with LaRussa, but point still taken.

Oops. Didn't realize that. Well, there must be some sort of residual Duncan effect in the StL clubhouse, because they keep churning viable arms out of retreads.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

I gotta agree about the braves. IMO BJ upton is a step down from Bourn, and Justin Upton is, well, justin upton. He's going to underachieve.

Where does this "Justin Upton is going to underachieve" thing come from? He has been inconsistent, yes, but he's 25 and has already had two All-Star / MVP caliber seasons. Joey Votto, by comparision, hadn't even emerged as an All-Star until he was 25. Last year Upton struggled with injuries, too -- so there is an alternate explanation for this supposed underachievement. I think it is just as likely that he has a resurgent year in 2013.

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by RedEye

Oops. Didn't realize that. Well, there must be some sort of residual Duncan effect in the StL clubhouse, because they keep churning viable arms out of retreads.

Derek Lilliquist has essentially been the Cards pitching coach since the last month or so of 2011. He's seems to be doing a good job.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by RedEye

Where does this "Justin Upton is going to underachieve" thing come from? He has been inconsistent, yes, but he's 25 and has already had two All-Star / MVP caliber seasons. Joey Votto, by comparision, hadn't even emerged as an All-Star until he was 25. Last year Upton struggled with injuries, too -- so there is an alternate explanation for this supposed underachievement. I think it is just as likely that he has a resurgent year in 2013.

There was an article/blurb on SI a couple of years ago talking about Jay Bruce/Justin Upton. The gist of the article was that when players reached the majors at a young age, more often than not they didn't follow the same trajectory a regular major leaguers. The standard rule is that your peak is 28 and then you go downhill after that. IIRC the article was saying that after so many at bats the player is who they are going to be. Many people have pointed out that Upton is still only 25 and believing that he will only improve as he ages. The question is what happens if he doesn't? What happens if 2011 was the best season he will ever have and last season was more of the norm?

When a team gives up on a player who is good, young, and cost controlled for a number of years that should raise red flags.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

The blind squirrel doesn't eventually catch the nut with the Cardinals. In fact, the squirrel becomes part of the team mascot in a playoff run

You also have to remember that the Cards have a very deep system and I don't see them selling off any of their team. If anything, they will be looking to trade for big name players if push comes to shove.

They'll finish last and the owners will sell the team to the Chicago Tribune. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[OGB]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

I gotta agree about the braves. IMO BJ upton is a step down from Bourn, and Justin Upton is, well, justin upton. He's going to underachieve. Uggla is going to really start declining imo, and so is brian McCann. I just don't see Freddi Freeman, Jason Heyward, and the Upton Bros living up to the hype.

Also, Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy won't pitch like they did last year again.

Hope you're wrong about Uggla. Guy came into my bar last year and was one of the nicer athletes I've ever met. One of the few non Reds that I actively root for.

[texasdave]

Wishbone C.