The Intangible Effect of Drew Stubbs

[TRF]

I'm taking Brisco's side on this. It's simple human behavior. Stats can be looked at in a vacuum, but the human element cannot be discounted. It's like the shut down closer argument. A team breathes a sigh of relief when Hell's Bells blasted in SD, because they "knew" the game was over. But, theoretically, any good pitcher on the roster can get those outs.

A bad defense can weigh on a pitcher, just like in any profession. If i am working with idiots, i put more pressure on myself to do well, for the project, company, whatever. Athletes are not immune to the human condition.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by TRF

I'm taking Brisco's side on this. It's simple human behavior. Stats can be looked at in a vacuum, but the human element cannot be discounted. It's like the shut down closer argument. A team breathes a sigh of relief when Hell's Bells blasted in SD, because they "knew" the game was over. But, theoretically, any good pitcher on the roster can get those outs.

A bad defense can weigh on a pitcher, just like in any profession. If i am working with idiots, i put more pressure on myself to do well, for the project, company, whatever. Athletes are not immune to the human condition.

Joe Pepitone tells a story about Jim Bouton on the Yankees being that guy, constantly complaining about OF or IF defense, especially when he lost his stuff.

Sure some guys do it.

They're called bad teammates

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by TRF

I'm taking Brisco's side on this. It's simple human behavior. Stats can be looked at in a vacuum, but the human element cannot be discounted. It's like the shut down closer argument. A team breathes a sigh of relief when Hell's Bells blasted in SD, because they "knew" the game was over. But, theoretically, any good pitcher on the roster can get those outs.

A bad defense can weigh on a pitcher, just like in any profession. If i am working with idiots, i put more pressure on myself to do well, for the project, company, whatever. Athletes are not immune to the human condition.

I think the debate is if this is a valid behavioral component. I would call this behavior "the blame game" of a mythical effect of "lacking confidence in a fielder." Sort of like Homer falling apart in his youth after an error in the field or a bad break. Did that suddenly justify him making bad pitches? No, he was expected to mature, and when he did, he would be better in those situations. Last season, it seemed that he had improved in overcoming adversity not of his own doing. But the only thing that changed was his attitude when the fielding or breaks did not help him.

[Tony Cloninger]

Originally Posted by Brisco

I disagree. If I was the pitcher and a bloop single landed in front of Stubbs, it would not change the way I pitched unless there was a runner in scoring position. My job as pitcher is to prevent solid contact... if a poor contact bloop lands for a single, that is gonna happen from time to time even when I am pitching very well. I can give up one or two of these every inning and still pitch a shutout.

Conversely, if I gave up a bloop single that a CF dove to get, only to have the ball roll to the wall for a triple? That would have my blood pressure skyrocket.

The things that get into my head are my mistakes... be they walks or hard hit balls. If i give up a hard hit ball that I think is gonna be extra bases for sure and turn to see Stubbs calmly camping in front of it, I would relax.

Did you ever see Paul Blair play? He played shallow to cut off bloops and could run like a Roadrunner.....Hence his nickname.
Stubbs was too afraid to go back into the wall......was timid there and while he could have played shallow.....with his speed....did not. Great speed and tools did not translate into much of a baseball IQ. Talking about him or bringing him up is just depressing really going into this year.

[Scrap Irony]

Originally Posted by TRF

I'm taking Brisco's side on this. It's simple human behavior. Stats can be looked at in a vacuum, but the human element cannot be discounted. It's like the shut down closer argument. A team breathes a sigh of relief when Hell's Bells blasted in SD, because they "knew" the game was over. But, theoretically, any good pitcher on the roster can get those outs.

A bad defense can weigh on a pitcher, just like in any profession. If i am working with idiots, i put more pressure on myself to do well, for the project, company, whatever. Athletes are not immune to the human condition.

Except Stubbs isn't a great defender.

He's... okay. Decent. Solidly average, perhaps above so.

If you're into analogies, Drew Stubbs: CF defense :: Alex Gonzalez: SS defense.

I simply don't think any pitcher is going to lose all that much sleep over that type of defender being sent packing.

They would, however, be overjoyed at the constant 1-0 or 2-0 leads a Choo- Phillips- Votto troika will produce.

[TRF]

Stubbs passes every eye test for me as a defender.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Here's the flip side of all of this:

The pitcher on the mound has all kind of pressure on him knowing "I can't give up many runs -- our centerfielder will be good for about 3 Ks at the plate today, likely during key situations. I really need to bear down here and not give up any runs. Can't count on Stubbs producing any runs offensively with his embarrassing OPS."

See how easy that was?

Bottom line: The Drew Stubbs spin-doctoring is hilarious IMO. The guy is a bad MLB player.

[TRF]

Juan Castro was a bad MLB player.

Drew Stubbs is a miscast MLB player.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by TRF

Stubbs passes every eye test for me as a defender.

Begging the question with respect to the validity of your eye tests.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by TRF

Juan Castro was a bad MLB player.

Drew Stubbs is a miscast MLB player.

Which is why the Reds cast him off as someone else's problem.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Which is why the Reds cast him off.

And they were right to do so, in that no other player on this team can hit leadoff. It forced Dusty into putting him there. Outside Votto, this was a team devoid of high OBP players. If Cozart or BP could REALLY handle leading off, and btw, neither can, then Stubbs hitting 7th is just fine with me.

but they can't so Dusty kept trying to make Stubbs into something he isn't. I've said for years, Stubbs is Adam Dunn lite. ton's of K's, about 80% of Dunn's power, and he's got about half his BB ability. That's fine. Let him hit .255 with 25 HR's. let him score 80-90 runs. If Stubbs posts a .320 OBP, he scores 90 runs. Lower, then he scores less. Outs are precious, but so are runs. Drew Stubbs can score runs. Stubbs was 18th in the NL in runs scored in 2010, 11th in 2011.

Bad ballplayers don't do that.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Which is why the Reds cast him off as someone else's problem.

Hardly a player to wring ones hands over, 2000 PA's a .700 OPS and Fielding Runs above average that is below average

He got a chance, he failed and got traded.... welcome to baseball

DREW STUBBS

GIVEN NAME: Robert Andrew Stubbs
BORN: 10/4/1984  Texarkana, Texas  
BAT: R  THROW: R  HEIGHT: 6'4"  WEIGHT: 205  MLB DEBUT: 8/19/2009
CAREER GAMES BY POSITION:  CF: 481  

YEAR TEAM         AGE G    AB    R    H    2B  3B  HR   HR%   RBI  BB   SO   SB   CS  AVG   SLG  OBA   OPS
2009 Reds         24   42   180   27   48   5   1   8   4.44   17   15   49   10   4  .267  .439  .323  .762 
2010 Reds         25  150   514   91  131  19   6  22   4.28   77   55  168   30   6  .255  .444  .329  .773 
2011 Reds         26  158   604   92  147  22   3  15   2.48   44   63  205   40  10  .243  .364  .321  .686 
2012 Reds         27  136   493   75  105  13   2  14   2.84   40   42  166   30   7  .213  .333  .277  .610 
     TOTALS           486  1791  285  431  59  12  59   3.29  178  175  588  110  27  .241  .386  .312  .698 
     LG AVERAGE            1820  235  475  95  11  52   2.84  223  175  377   35  14  .261  .411  .329  .740 
     POS AVERAGE           1818  267  474  91  20  46   2.52  189  179  418   80  26  .261  .408  .331  .740 

YEAR TEAM         TRAA RCAA FRAA   RC   OWP   RC/G   TB   EBH  ISO   BPA IBB HBP SAC  SF GIDP OUTS  PA   POS
2009 Reds            0    1   -1   26  .512   5.09   79   14  .172  .508   0   0   1   0   1   138   196  CF
2010 Reds           15    8    7   80  .549   5.35  228   47  .189  .528   2   5   3   6   6   404   583  CF
2011 Reds          -10   -7   -3   78  .461   4.42  220   40  .121  .471   1   7   6   1   2   476   681  CF
2012 Reds          -37  -26  -11   49  .317   3.27  164   29  .120  .426   0   2   6   1   2   404   544  CF
     TOTALS        -32  -24   -8  233  .456   4.42  691  130  .145  .479   3  14  16   8  11  1422  2004 
     LG AVERAGE      0    0    0  249  .500   4.73  747  158  .150  .455  16  17  10  14  40  1422  2036 
     POS AVERAGE     8    8    0  257  .515   4.87  742  157  .148  .478  11  17  16  10  27  1422  2041

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by TRF

And they were right to do so, in that no other player on this team can hit leadoff. It forced Dusty into putting him there. Outside Votto, this was a team devoid of high OBP players. If Cozart or BP could REALLY handle leading off, and btw, neither can, then Stubbs hitting 7th is just fine with me.

but they can't so Dusty kept trying to make Stubbs into something he isn't. I've said for years, Stubbs is Adam Dunn lite. ton's of K's, about 80% of Dunn's power, and he's got about half his BB ability. That's fine. Let him hit .255 with 25 HR's. let him score 80-90 runs. If Stubbs posts a .320 OBP, he scores 90 runs. Lower, then he scores less. Outs are precious, but so are runs. Drew Stubbs can score runs. Stubbs was 18th in the NL in runs scored in 2010, 11th in 2011.

Bad ballplayers don't do that.

LOL. People still trying to blame Dusty for Stubbs' failures. Sorry, Stubbs just isn't good IMO. He has the rest of his career to prove me right or wrong.

And in no way does Stubbs have "80 percent of Adam Dunn's power." Dunn is a lock for 40 bombs every year, except 2011. Are you saying Stubbs would be a lock for over 30 per year? Not even close.