Should Bronson Arroyo make the Reds Hall of Fame?

[Edskin]

I agree with MWM...the criteria for team HOF should be different and I have no problem using emotion and fan sentiment as a measuring stick. Casey as a baseball player was hardly HOF material by any stretch---especially when you consider the offensive history of the Reds, but he was a solid to good player for a number if years, and must importantly, he was as beloved a player as any I've seen in my lifetime and likely in the history of the franchise.

Fans appreciated his kindness and the way he embraced the game. He was someone they enjoyed rooting for (and for awhile there, he was a darn good hitter). He represented many good things for the Reds during his time here and I'm 100% OK with him making the HOF.

That was a long ramble to illustrate a greater point....Arroyo came to the team at a time when our SP was at an all time low. He stuck it out on some bad teams and is now still a key member of a team with legit WS aspirations. Some may scoff because he is probably just a #3/4 starter on a good team (like we are now), but I certainly see the value in a guy that can be a #3/4 starter for one team for almost a decade and do it well---especially a team that was so poor at that position prior to his arrival.

Bronson also has a little "big game swagger" to him that I think people like. I really trust him in bigger games and he has performed well in our playoff appearances two of the last three seasons. His story in Cincy is still being written, but right now, I'd say he is on track for the HOF.

[RedsBaron]

Yes

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by redsmetz

What's interesting is that this shows what a miniscule number of decent starting pitchers the club has had in those 65 years or so. And everyone's in the hall except Aaron Harang, who is still playing. And aside from Rijo, there aren't any others from the last 25 years besides Arroyo and Harang. Curious as to why Billingham doesn't show up or, for that matter, Seaver.

Glad to see Arroyo's ERA showing in persepctive. Am I understanding that as just being 0.10 over today's norm?

.10 below the norm

And the search was sorted just on Games started with only a return of ten players hence the missing 70s guys

[jojo]

The issue with Arroyo's ERA is that it has been helped a great deal by the defenses behind him. He's outperformed his peripherals to a greater extent than any pitcher in the Reds HOF. Normalizing for the era played in doesn't tell the whole story.

[crazybob60]

I love debates like this.

I have actually had this very scenario run through my head a few times ever since last year's induction ceremony. Basically which Reds on the current team would be worthy of a spot in the Reds HOF when their time in baseball is done.

Arroyo to me, would probably get in. I mean, look where he ranks right now amongst the Reds that are in and he still has time left in the league. And who knows what Walt will do if Bronson has a successful season this year? Sign him to a one year deal at a lower amount? That could boost his numbers even moreso. Now I am not saying that I would back that, but who knows.

Also, if we are really good this year, he could still get that WS title for the Reds too. If we win that and Bronson contributes towards it, then its a no brainer in my books.

[TRF]

I hate to be the first to say it, but it's hall of FAME, not hall of NUMBERS.

As a Red over the last going on 9 years now, how many Reds meet that criteria, for that length of time? He's extremely popular both in the clubhouse and with the fans. He's a worker. He doesn't complain, but speaks his mind. He doesn't get into trouble.

Reds HOF, no doubt.

[lollipopcurve]

The issue with Arroyo's ERA is that it has been helped a great deal by the defenses behind him.

How about ballpark?

[bigredmechanism]

Originally Posted by TRF

I hate to be the first to say it, but it's hall of FAME, not hall of NUMBERS.

As a Red over the last going on 9 years now, how many Reds meet that criteria, for that length of time? He's extremely popular both in the clubhouse and with the fans. He's a worker. He doesn't complain, but speaks his mind. He doesn't get into trouble.

Reds HOF, no doubt.

I don't know, sometimes he gets into trouble in the 7th inning.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by jojo

The issue with Arroyo's ERA is that it has been helped a great deal by the defenses behind him. He's outperformed his peripherals to a greater extent than any pitcher in the Reds HOF. Normalizing for the era played in doesn't tell the whole story.

No doubt Arroyo has been helped by the improved team defense that Jocketty has fielded. However, in his early days here, he had horrible defenses behind him which probably hurt him.

Arroyo had a nice year in 2012. I'm guessing Arroyo knew he had a great defense behind him and took advantage of it. That's the kind of player I want personally, and I don't want him to be penalized for it.
Now.. if you are comparing Arroyo's skill level to an another pitcher on a poor defensive team, it's fair game to bring up that Arroyo is helped by defense, but as far as Reds' HOF criteria, he's smart to use that defense. If Arroyo tried to strike out every batter he faced, his K rate would probably go up, but I'm guessing we'd get much less innings out of him (and possibly poorer total run prevention).

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by TRF

I hate to be the first to say it, but it's hall of FAME, not hall of NUMBERS.

As a Red over the last going on 9 years now, how many Reds meet that criteria, for that length of time? He's extremely popular both in the clubhouse and with the fans. He's a worker. He doesn't complain, but speaks his mind. He doesn't get into trouble.

Reds HOF, no doubt.

Pete Donahue, Jerry Lynch and Brooks Lawrence agree.

The Reds are not the Yankees, for only a short time in their 130 years plus have they been a franchise that could claim to have the cream of the crop as far as players are concerned. Arroyo is going to end this season at #10 in the franchise as far as games started, the 9 guys in front of him are in the HOF the 4 after him are in... none of them ever did a Skyline commercial.

He's a shoo-in

[WildcatFan]

Absolutely. The Reds HOF immortalizes the team's history, not necessarily its best players. You can't talk about the Reds of the 2000s without talking about Bronson as a character and, at times, a darn good pitcher. His outing in San Francisco in October was one of my favorite moments of the last 10 years. He was a shot in the arm to a pretty boring franchise when he got here, and I'm happy to see him reap the benefits of a great team.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by TRF

I hate to be the first to say it, but it's hall of FAME, not hall of NUMBERS.

As a Red over the last going on 9 years now, how many Reds meet that criteria, for that length of time? He's extremely popular both in the clubhouse and with the fans. He's a worker. He doesn't complain, but speaks his mind. He doesn't get into trouble.

Reds HOF, no doubt.

Agree with this. Bronson gave the Reds a solid starter when we desperately needed one and did it for a number of years. It's been a rocky road at times, but I think considering the era of Reds pitching at the time, the inning pitched, the transformation the Reds have gone through during his tenure, etc. I think although he has just been average, the emotional aspect, and the era of the Reds he played a part in, I think he deserves it.

[jojo]

Just for accuracy's sake, Bronson has been a Red for 7 seasons. If he is not traded or resigned, he will have spent 8 seasons as a Red.

[westofyou]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ZwylOOKGUV0

[Red in Chicago]

Originally Posted by westofyou

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=ZwylOOKGUV0

OMG - Flashbacks of Jerry. UGH.