CF Defense, is it that important?

[Trajinous]

I keep reading/hearing how one of the Red's biggest concern/weakness is center field defense. I wonder how important is CF defense anyways?

I haven't seen stats that are useful in comparing the impact but love to see it if anyone here could break it down. I personally see it as a negligible difference. Maybe we lose one game because Choo or Bruce can't run down a game-winning blooper. If CF defense is our biggest weakness then the NL should start worrying big time.

[dougdirt]

Let's just assume that one ball a week that Stubbs would have gotten now falls. Just one a week. That is 26 hits. A standard break down of those means 20 singles, 5 doubles and a triple. Assuming we take defense out of it and just were to add that to offense, that is the difference between hitting .250/.300/.400 over 600 PA's and hitting .286/.333/.448.

Center field defense is incredibly important. Not only will it give up more hits, it is also going to directly lead to your starters having fewer innings because they are going to have to throw more pitches.

We are still the favorites, and should be, but defense in center is very important and right now, the Reds stink in center when it comes to defense.

[Red Raindog]

It might be a cliche but the cliche says you build your defense from the middle out --- I've never seen anyhting that made me doubt it -- says I - the former CF in my youth

[Spike]

It has been years since I was able to post as I was what you would call a "selective poster". When the "new rules" hit back in the day, I did not have enough posts so I was "banished" you might say.

Thanks for having me back!

I have not heard this yet (or so I think), but with Choo only here for one year, and with his ability to crush right-handed pitching, but not so much lefties, whether there might develop a straight platoon with Choo in center with Heisey? This could mitigate some of the defensive liabilities while maybe offering more of a punch than just Choo everyday.

Boras would be pissed, but what do we owe Choo but a championship?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Spike

It has been years since I was able to post as I was what you would call a "selective poster". When the "new rules" hit back in the day, I did not have enough posts so I was "banished" you might say.

Thanks for having me back!

I have not heard this yet (or so I think), but with Choo only here for one year, and with his ability to crush right-handed pitching, but not so much lefties, whether there might develop a straight platoon with Choo in center with Heisey? This could mitigate some of the defensive liabilities while maybe offering more of a punch than just Choo everyday.

Boras would be pissed, but what do we owe Choo but a championship?

I don't believe we will see a straight platoon, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Choo as the DH in every interleague road game with Heisey in CF and Heisey in CF for about 10-20 more games with Bailey and Arroyo on the mound as the fly ball pitchers on the staff.

[m21eagle45]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I don't believe we will see a straight platoon, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Choo as the DH in every interleague road game with Heisey in CF and Heisey in CF for about 10-20 more games with Bailey and Arroyo on the mound as the fly ball pitchers on the staff.

If you look at Choo's defensive numbers, in 2010 he was a very good corner outfielder. Many speculate in 2011 and 2012 his numbers dropped because he was afraid of getting hurt. Some of those think this was influenced by Boras. If he plays without worrying about injury, you could see Luddy as the DH.

[kaldaniels]

Can Choo slide over to left when Ludwick needs a rest? (I'm thinking Choo is a RF off the top of my head.)

Working 4 guys into an outfield rotation really shouldn't be that difficult. Let Heisey play CF when he is in there and we should be fine. Give Ludwick every 5th day off, give Choo/Bruce every 6/7 days off and you can have Heisey in CF about 50% of the time.

[westofyou]

Yes, CF defense is important but it can be worked around especially in the GAB

Other parks nah... there is a reason Geronimo is one of the great eight and it's not his bat.

It will be interesting especially when Arroyo hits a big OF

[redsfan1995]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Can Choo slide over to left when Ludwick needs a rest? (I'm thinking Choo is a RF off the top of my head.)

Working 4 guys into an outfield rotation really shouldn't be that difficult. Let Heisey play CF when he is in there and we should be fine. Give Ludwick every 5th day off, give Choo/Bruce every 6/7 days off and you can have Heisey in CF about 50% of the time.

I feel we will be seeing alot of this scenario.

[UCBrownsfan]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I don't believe we will see a straight platoon, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Choo as the DH in every interleague road game with Heisey in CF and Heisey in CF for about 10-20 more games with Bailey and Arroyo on the mound as the fly ball pitchers on the staff.

Why is it such a sure thing that Choo won't be a good defensive CF, I feel like the corner's are a touch more difficult(reading the spin), where speed is the key difference for CF, ie just covering the ground. He'll also be located right in the middle of Bruce, Ludwick, Phillips, and Cozart -- so a few balls that Stubbs may get that Choo can't will just be caught by the others. He's got decent speed, and he's a good defender.

Choo is in the top 26 OF's last year for stolen bases... nearly every other OF in that category is considered a CF.... 17 CF, 6 RF(including Choo), and 3 LF. Included in the groups of the 9 corner outfielders though is Juan Pierre, Carlos Gonzalez, and Alex Rios which a year ago would have been considered CF's.

[FlightRick]

In addition to Choo manning LF on days Ludwick needs off and during interleague play, I also think he'll be there in the later innings of games.

Heisey should, in a common sense deployment, see a lot of action as a CF defensive replacement in games where the Reds are ahead after 6 or 7 (it should be basically a given, although exactly when you make the move can be dictated by where you are in the batting order/double switches/etc.). That doesn't exactly fix the overall problem, but it does mean it'll be less glaring in high leverage situations, I figure.


Rick

[Spike]

Baker unlikely to lift Choo for Heisey late in games

Apparently Dusty sees it a little differently.

"In my opinion, I think Heisey is a better corner man," Baker said on Tuesday. "If Heisey had been a center fielder or a leadoff man, we wouldn't have to get Choo. He can play [center field] in a pinch."

Then he retracts a bit (I think?).

Heisey has a lot of effort," Baker said. "He'll probably play center field on days Choo doesn't play."

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...k_cin&c_id=cin

[R_Webb18]

I'm calling it now he does fine in cf. No reason to back this up just my gut feeling.

[marcshoe]

Originally Posted by FlightRick

In addition to Choo manning LF on days Ludwick needs off and during interleague play, I also think he'll be there in the later innings of games.

Heisey should, in a common sense deployment, see a lot of action as a CF defensive replacement in games where the Reds are ahead after 6 or 7 (it should be basically a given, although exactly when you make the move can be dictated by where you are in the batting order/double switches/etc.). That doesn't exactly fix the overall problem, but it does mean it'll be less glaring in high leverage situations, I figure.


Rick

That's what I've been assuming, but Dusty said no today.

Baker unlikely to lift Choo for Heisey late in games

"In my opinion, I think Heisey is a better corner man," Baker said on Tuesday. "If Heisey had been a center fielder or a leadoff man, we wouldn't have to get Choo. He can play [center field] in a pinch."

I think he's right. Heisey's high-effort style in center has masked the fact that he's not all that good out there. I think several posters pointed this out during the season last year.

edit: and hey, while I was posting Spike posted the same quote.

[FlightRick]

I wasn't suggesting taking Choo out of the game for Heisey.... I was suggesting that was yet another scenario (among others listed previously in this thread) in which Choo would get time in LF. Ludwick would be the one coming out in late game situations.

I think that move would actually upgrade both CF and LF defensively, making it all the more sensible...


Rick