Michael Bourn - CLE

[mgbrown66]

Originally Posted by Trajinous

Tribes fans are silly. A baseball team's line-up is moot when said baseball team doesn't have even one solid starter. Good job on landing Bourn by not having to give up a draft pick, Cleveland rocks!

We ought to know. Sounds like the Griffey/Dunn Reds during the decade of 2000-2010.

[Vander]

Originally Posted by mgbrown66

We ought to know. Sounds like the Griffey/Dunn Reds during the decade of 2000-2010.

*shudders*

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Tribefan33

Swisher doesn't offset of the loss of Choo? Uh what? in what universe?
in the last 3 years Swisher has 76 HRs to Choos 46, Swisher has 99 Doubles to Choos 85, Swisher had 230 Walks to Choos 192, and Swisher has had the same or better WAR 2 of those 3 years, and Swisher actually stays healthy, offensive wise Swisher was a HUGE upgrade and its not even close really

Same with Hafner and Reynolds, last 3 years Reynolds has 82 HRs to Hafners 38, 70 Doubles to Hafners 51 and again he stays healthy, so thats another HUGE upgrade, i mean if you cant see a almost 50 HR diffrence isn't incredibly significant then idk what to tell you other then you more then likley cant even spell the word baseball let alone should be talking about it

what about adding Bourn over Damon/Carerra/Cunningham?
or Chisenhall over Hannahan?


but its clear you just wanted to troll and get owned while looking like a fool in the process, and thats fine, but do some research next time chump

A healthy Shin Soo Choo is an .875 to .900 OPS guy. Swisher is a pretty good .825 guy. Choo is a better defender and a better baseruner. At best it's a wash because io Choo's health status.

Reynolds last three seasons, .753, .806, .763. Pretty pedestrian for a one trick pony with no defensive or situational skills. Hafner has put-up .824, .811, .784. Not a world beater either for an offensive specialist. Hafner misses time, so Reynolds makes up for his lessser performance by probably being better than the bech guy who play's when Hafner doesn't. Wash IMO.

Bourn, as I acknowledged, is an upgrade, but speed guys on the wrong side of 30 don't excite me and apparantly the GMS around baseball who kept backing off from him agree for the most part.

I like Chisenhall's potential. We'll see about him.

You guys are playing Drew Stubbs in an OF corner and he's easily the best option at this point. I can't think of a bigger indictment of a team's offensive potential.

As for the troll stuff, I've been here for 7 years, have over 12000 posts and no one has ever accused me of that before. You have 9 posts and go on a rant. If you insist in going to the stats, that's a pretty good one to study IMO.

[90reds]

The Indians won't finish higher than .500 this year. They just won't. Not with that rotation

[holster10]

Is Bourn really worthy $12 mil a year as a table setter? Maybe so, but his game seems pretty flawed (high K's for little power) but yet he is still one of the best lead off types.

[UCBrownsfan]

Swisher doesn't offset of the loss of Choo? Uh what? in what universe?
in the last 3 years Swisher has 76 HRs to Choos 46, Swisher has 99 Doubles to Choos 85, Swisher had 230 Walks to Choos 192, and Swisher has had the same or better WAR 2 of those 3 years, and Swisher actually stays healthy, offensive wise Swisher was a HUGE upgrade and its not even close really

Choo's career OPS+ is 132 ---- Nick Swisher's best year is 129. Choo's average is better than Swisher's best. Swisher is much more consistent. Choo has had a better OPS+ 4 of the past 5 years, since he became a regular. Choo is also 2 years younger. According to Baseball Reference, Choo's 3 year war total is 10.2, and Swisher's is 8.4, despite the games missed by Choo.

[coachpipe]

And my friends in cleveland wonder why I cant stand cleveland sports. He made it pretty clear. But to call someone out about not knowing anything about baseball and then proceed to only talk about HRs..There are more things that describe a good baseball player other than home runs.

I do however want to see the indians succeed. Do I think they will? No. I see them around .500 at the end of the year. We are Reds fans here on this board. We have seen what having an offense and no pitching is like. IT DOESNT WORK

SO I wish the indians luck and see them improving in the future, but as for this season, your expectations are set to high (trust me, like I said, as a reds fan I have set some expectations that i thought at the time were reasonable and come to find out I was WAY off)

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by UCBrownsfan

Swisher doesn't offset of the loss of Choo? Uh what? in what universe?
in the last 3 years Swisher has 76 HRs to Choos 46, Swisher has 99 Doubles to Choos 85, Swisher had 230 Walks to Choos 192, and Swisher has had the same or better WAR 2 of those 3 years, and Swisher actually stays healthy, offensive wise Swisher was a HUGE upgrade and its not even close really

Choo's career OPS+ is 132 ---- Nick Swisher's best year is 129. Choo's average is better than Swisher's best. Swisher is much more consistent. Choo has had a better OPS+ 4 of the past 5 years, since he became a regular. Choo is also 2 years younger. According to Baseball Reference, Choo's 3 year war total is 10.2, and Swisher's is 8.4, despite the games missed by Choo.

I think if Choo was willing to sign an extension with CLE, they would've signed him. He apparently wanted to test the FA market, thus he was traded for a young arm. Swisher + Bourne + their other additions - Choo is potentially a pretty decent improvement in their overall offense. Like many rebuilding teams, there's some potential upside in their pitching, but it probably won't be good enough to contend next year.

If I was an Indians fan, I'd be thrilled with the moves they made over the winter. Think about back to the dark days as a Reds fan.. If the Reds had an offseason where they lost Dunn, yet gained players identical to Swisher/Bauer/Stubbs/Reynolds/Bourn/etc I think I would view that as progress, even if it wasn't likely we were going to contend. I don't follow CLE that closely, but it seems they were very weak in the OF last season.. I think they were forced to play some infielders out there due to lack of depth even. Cleveland didn't fix everything this offseason, but they are closer to contention than they were last year, IMO.

So yea, I agree with you that 2013 Choo is probably slightly better than 2013 Swisher, but the big picture is that Cleveland gets multiple years of Swisher instead of one year of Choo.

[holster10]

Not a fan of Swisher. He was playing for the White Sox a few years back for one season and they couldn't wait to get rid of him. Not only was he terrible for the Sox apparently the local media painted him as a clubhouse cancer.