Another strategy question for a slow day...

[smixsell]

Originally Posted by lidspinner

I have argued till I am blue about having my closer ready from the 7th inning on and bring him in during the best and biggest part of the other teams lineup, be it the 7th inning or the 9th.........nothing I hate more than a closer come in and pitch to the 7-8-9 hole hitters and get the save while the set up or long relief guy pitched his tail off to the 3-4-5-6 hole hitters the inning before and almost blew our 1-2 run lead....

Simply amazing if you ask me that managers allow their closers to sit there in the 7th and 8th innings while other relievers struggle and the closer sits there because the rules state that closers must pitch the 9th inning only......oh, that's right the rules don't state that.....so why do managers demand their best reliever pitch the 9th inning only?

It's the one part of the game that I simply cannot explain to my kids when they ask why Chapman has to pitch the 9th inning only....I cannot give them a good answer that satisfies their hunger for answers.

I am all in favor of flexibility in the use of relievers, including "closers."

In fact, they used to call relievers "short men" or "long men," with the short men being late inning guys who were generally brought in to get the tough outs. They were typically used at least somewhat flexibly, with one short guy finishing the game one day, and a different short guy finishing the next day, depending on situations and matchups. Often the ace of the bullpen was brought in in the 7th, with another short man finishing the game if the ace got tired or if the manager wanted to limit his pitches.

Flexibility is ALWAYS a good thing to have, even if you are going to use a guy in a certain way 98% of the time, it's still good to know when to break the general rule. I agree that there are situations where the most difficult or important outs occur before the 9th, and agree that the closer should sometimes be brought in earlier than the 9th.

I also agree that the typical modern manager canbe maddening in slavishly following the current "book" when the game is begging for something different.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by lidspinner

I have been preaching on this site for a few years that closers are nothing more than the unions way of making owners pay more money to more players hence why the "save" was created......I have argued till I am blue about having my closer ready from the 7th inning on and bring him in during the best and biggest part of the other teams lineup, be it the 7th inning or the 9th.........nothing I hate more than a closer come in and pitch to the 7-8-9 hole hitters and get the save while the set up or long relief guy pitched his tail off to the 3-4-5-6 hole hitters the inning before and almost blew our 1-2 run lead....

Simply amazing if you ask me that managers allow their closers to sit there in the 7th and 8th innings while other relievers struggle and the closer sits there because the rules state that closers must pitch the 9th inning only......oh, that's right the rules don't state that.....so why do managers demand their best reliever pitch the 9th inning only?

It's the one part of the game that I simply cannot explain to my kids when they ask why Chapman has to pitch the 9th inning only....I cannot give them a good answer that satisfies their hunger for answers.

Jerome Holzman invented the save stat, before closers only worked in 9th and before arb and free agency.

How does the union play into that?

Other than taking advantage of it in arb once the owners said stuff like... "well you're not a starter"