Reds sign Mark Prior

[bigredmechanism]

Originally Posted by Big Red Hoss

Its these moves that the reds have made of the last few years that make a difference. Seems like there is always someone that walt signs who is "washed up" that ends up contributing. Remember what everyone said when we went for scott rolen, Johnny Gomes, D-train.

How about Ludwick? I certainly thought he was done before he came to the Great American Fountain of Youth.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by cinreds21

Uhhh Baker is the reason why he is where he is. Probably not the best idea lol.

Yea, I guess that shows that Prior might not accept that myth either.

[Kc61]

Prior was quoted today as saying that Dusty keeps up their relationship and comes to see Prior when Dusty's in San Diego.

This is why Dusty is such an outstanding manager in terms of motivating players.

I would just love to see Prior pitch well at AAA this year and be in a position to come up and help the Reds in the second half. It would be a great story given the criticism of Dusty's use of him at Chicago.

This Reds organization has become so impressive under Castellini/Jocketty/Baker that fans should hope they stay in place for a long while, even with the criticism of some of Baker's in-game moves.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Guy faced 863 batters in 2003 and 264 pitchers have done that and more since.

Chances are his arm would have exploded eventually.

Maybe Mark Prior is the one who should decide who he stays connected to in the game and not the fans?

I don't care that Mark Prior wants to stay connected with Dusty. That is his choice. I am saying that Prior probably doesn't understand just how abused his arm was by Dusty.

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I am saying that Prior probably doesn't understand just how abused his arm was by Dusty.

But you somehow do?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Guy faced 863 batters in 2003 and 264 pitchers have done that and more since.

Chances are his arm would have exploded eventually.

Maybe Mark Prior is the one who should decide who he stays connected to in the game and not the fans?

Sure, perhaps it would have. But it isn't that he faced X number of batters, it is that he did it at a young age, and in particular just how much he had while already at his career high in innings/batters faced. From August 10th-the end of the playoffs, Prior started 13 games. He threw 100 innings in those games. He threw 1575 pitches in those games.

So 13 games, he averaged 7.7 innings and 121.2 pitches per game. At 22 years old. That is arm abuse. Plain and simple.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I don't care that Mark Prior wants to stay connected with Dusty. That is his choice. I am saying that Prior probably doesn't understand just how abused his arm was by Dusty.

Yeah I'm sure Mark Prior has trouble making change when he goes to the Pony Keg too.

Chances are Mark Prior knows more about pitching than you or I and is quite aware of what worked in his career and what didn't, he's a grown man who was able to get into Vanderbilt, I'm fairly certain he has the capability to deduce all sorts of things in his world

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Yeah I'm sure Mark Prior has trouble making change when he goes to the Pony Keg too.

Chances are Mark Prior knows more about pitching than you or I and is quite aware of what worked in his career and what didn't, he's a grown man who was able to get into Vanderbilt, I'm fairly certain he has the capability to deduce all sorts of things in his world

And yet here we are 10 years later and if anyone came close to 13 games to end a season, 100 innings and an average of 121 pitches per game over that stretch to a 22 year old, they would be fired so fast it isn't funny. It is why that the Reds specifically talked to Dusty Baker about how he handles pitchers before they brought him in as their manager.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by jimbo

But you somehow do?

I am saying that every team in baseball does now because they specifically lay out plans to avoid using young pitchers how Mark Prior was used. They don't do that for fun, they do it because they all believe that usage like that directly leads to arm injuries.

[Gallen5862]

The Reds now have half of the Cubs old pitching duo of "Woods and Prior and pray for fire."

[reds44]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

And yet here we are 10 years later and if anyone came close to 13 games to end a season, 100 innings and an average of 121 pitches per game over that stretch to a 22 year old, they would be fired so fast it isn't funny. It is why that the Reds specifically talked to Dusty Baker about how he handles pitchers before they brought him in as their manager.

Yeah, this is hyperbole.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by reds44

Yeah, this is hyperbole.

You don't think that a manager would get fired for having a 22 year old starter average 121 pitches over 13 straight starts in 2013? Well, other than the fact that it wouldn't happen more than once because the GM would tell him very clearly to never do it again unless he had a no hitter or perfect game going on, and even then, you better be really careful.

[dougdirt]

In 2003, Prior averaged 121 pitches over his final 13 starts. In 2012, the entire Reds pitching staff had one single game over 121 pitches and it was Cueto, who threw 122 pitches in that game (complete game, June 12th).

[757690]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

In 2003, Prior averaged 121 pitches over his final 13 starts. In 2012, the entire Reds pitching staff had one single game over 121 pitches and it was Cueto, who threw 122 pitches in that game (complete game, June 12th).

It's very hard to argue that Baker didn't overwork Prior in 2003, as your numbers demonstrate. That's probably the last time we see a young pitcher worked like that.

However, we really don't know that that workload is what caused Prior's injury. I personally think teams should pitch their best pitchers without regard for pitch counts, age and workloads. Pitchers are going to get hurt no matter how you handle them. I think the value of using them when they are healthy and you need the quality innings outweighs whatever extra years you might get out of them by babying them. jmo

[klw]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Guy faced 863 batters in 2003 and 264 pitchers have done that and more since.

Chances are his arm would have exploded eventually.

Maybe Mark Prior is the one who should decide who he stays connected to in the game and not the fans?

If you include the 97 hitters he faced in the post-season, he faced 960 hitters in 03.

Does including post season #'s adjust the 264 figure much?

Are those 264 pitchers or 264 seasons? Ex a guy like Randy Johnson did that twice after 02. Does he count as once or twice? (He did it 12 times total)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...01-pitch.shtml