Reds sign Mark Prior

[wlf WV]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

I am watching some stuff from last year in Pawtucket right now on Prior. He was 88-92 in his second game with them (haven't gotten any further than that). The curveball can still be really nasty, though a few weren't spun nearly as tight as others. I haven't gone back to look at pre-injury mechanics yet to refresh my memory, but he does seem to be short arming the ball a little bit more than I remember. I could just be remembering wrong though.

I remembered him as having a weird short arm delivery. I couldn't understand how he generated his velocity.Sorta looked like a girl throwing.

I also think this is more Baker doing a favor,than anything else,but I like it.

[Edskin]

I have lots of "Internet fans" I enjoy, but "message board doctor guy" is my favorite. Somewhere along the way, people decided that Dusty Baker "ruined" Kerry Wood and Mark Prior and ignore most of the expert analysis I've read that details their flawed mechanics and possibly being exposed to throwing junk too early in their physical development (little league). You should see the Redskins boards right now in regards to RG3's knee.... On the message board I frequent there are 3 plumbers, 4 lawyers, 1 CPA, and 1,436 orthopedic surgeons.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

You don't think that a manager would get fired for having a 22 year old starter average 121 pitches over 13 straight starts in 2013? Well, other than the fact that it wouldn't happen more than once because the GM would tell him very clearly to never do it again unless he had a no hitter or perfect game going on, and even then, you better be really careful.

No, I don't. Not a team who needed every win to get in the playoffs in August and September and then proceeded to play 12 playoff games. If Alou catches the foul ball or Alex Gonzalez doesn't boot a DP and the Cubs go on to win the World Series and Prior blows his arm out do you think Dusty gets fired? No.

To sit there with tunnel vision and say any manager who did that would have been fired on the spot is the definition of hyperbole.

I'm not arguing Prior wasn't overused by Dusty, because he obviously was. I also don't care because Dusty has handled the Reds group of young arms fine since he's been here. If overworking Prior and Wood caused him to change, well I'm glad he did it before he got to Cincinnati.

I also could argue that even if you want to blame Prior's first injury on Dusty go for it, but the fact Prior has never made a comeback when countless number of pitchers have come back from TJ, it probably has less to do with Dusty and more to do with Prior's DNA that he has never really returned.

[Wonderful Monds]

Originally Posted by reds44

No, I don't. Not a team who needed every win to get in the playoffs in August and September and then proceeded to play 12 playoff games. If Alou catches the foul ball or Alex Gonzalez doesn't boot a DP and the Cubs go on to win the World Series and Prior blows his arm out do you think Dusty gets fired? No.

To sit there with tunnel vision and say any manager who did that would have been fired on the spot is the definition of hyperbole.

I'm not arguing Prior wasn't overused by Dusty, because he obviously was. I also don't care because Dusty has handled the Reds group of young arms fine since he's been here. If overworking Prior and Wood caused him to change, well I'm glad he did it before he got to Cincinnati.

I also could argue that even if you want to blame Prior's first injury on Dusty go for it, but the fact Prior has never made a comeback when countless number of pitchers have come back from TJ, it probably has less to do with Dusty and more to do with Prior's DNA that he has never really returned.

I agree with you, although Prior had shoulder issues, a bigger death sentence than elbow issues and TJ surgery.

[BearcatShane]

I might get ripped for this, but in my opinion winning a championship is far more important than protecting young pitchers. The goal is to win it all, not ensure your ace pitcher is on the fast track to the hall of fame. If I have to overwork my young pitcher at the risk he might suffer major arm injuries(not guranteed, but definite risk is there) but we win a world series in the end. Well, I'll do it. But thats why I don't work in baseball I guess.

[gilpdawg]

Originally Posted by medford

When Stassburg blew out his elbow, and all the talk of the "inverted W" started proping up, the video of Prior's throwing motion showed a clear "inverted W". If they still attribute that as a cause to elbow wear or not, I don't know, but if that theory still applies, its pretty clear why he had elbow trouble.

Heck, don't even throw a baseball, just hold your arm in that position and it can be uncomfortable, so add a bunch of torque to that and it makes perfect sense.

[gilpdawg]

Originally Posted by Edskin

I have lots of "Internet fans" I enjoy, but "message board doctor guy" is my favorite. Somewhere along the way, people decided that Dusty Baker "ruined" Kerry Wood and Mark Prior and ignore most of the expert analysis I've read that details their flawed mechanics and possibly being exposed to throwing junk too early in their physical development (little league). You should see the Redskins boards right now in regards to RG3's knee.... On the message board I frequent there are 3 plumbers, 4 lawyers, 1 CPA, and 1,436 orthopedic surgeons.

Nobody brings up the fact that Kerry Wood was originally injured playing for Jim Riggleman.

[Raisor]

When I first saw the subject line I thought it said "Reds sign Hank Prior"

I didn't know who that would have been.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

That just tells me that Mark Prior doesn't understand what happened to him all of these years later. Dusty Baker abused that dudes arm, big time, whether he knows it or not.

This. No major league player is going to fault his manager for giving him playing time.

[MoneyInTheBank]

If you are 22 year old Mark Prior, you are an adult. If you think you are being abused in any way, step up, be a man and say something. Prior never felt abused.

22 year old Mark Prior had a family and an agent, with armies of doctors, trainers, etc. looking out for his well being. None of these folks felt he was being abused.

The Chicago Cubs as an organization had millions of dollars invested in Prior. It was in their best interest to look out for Prior. Nobody in the higher ranks of the organization felt he was being abused.

As fans, we need someone to point a finger at. Especially when our stars get injured. That person was Dusty Baker. At this point, it's been repeated so many times, we all accept it as fact.

[757690]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

This. No major league player is going to fault his manager for giving him playing time.

And yet Aaron Harang did. And Gary Nolan. And I am sure hundreds of other pitchers who had arm injuries after being overworked, or forced to pitch injured. It's actually a pretty common cry, especially when they think it cost them money.

[Roy Tucker]

There are lots of times in life where if I knew then what I know now, I'd be a lot better off. But like I tell my kids, you can't change the past, you can only change the future. If you learn from your past mistakes and get better, then that's how life is.

I think Dusty has moved forward into the modern day thinking of building up a young pitcher. Back then, he did the same thing most every other manager did, win at all costs and burn out young guys. Reds did it with Gary Nolan, Wayne Simpson, Don Gullett, etc etc.

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

There are lots of times in life where if I knew then what I know now, I'd be a lot better off. But like I tell my kids, you can't change the past, you can only change the future. If you learn from your past mistakes and get better, then that's how life is.

I think Dusty has moved forward into the modern day thinking of building up a young pitcher. Back then, he did the same thing most every other manager did, win at all costs and burn out young guys. Reds did it with Gary Nolan, Wayne Simpson, Don Gullett, etc etc.

True. And he was likely just following the advice of his pitching coach back then just like he does now. In 2003 the Cubs pitching coach was former Reds coach Larry Rothschild and their bench coach was future Reds pitching coach Dick Pole. I would say those guys were more responsible for overworking Mark Prior than Dusty Baker was, although the final decision was the manager's.

[goreds2]

Thank goodness a Cubs fan cannot join RedsZone and invade this thread. Prior was so good in his initial years that Tom Seaver asked for his autograph. If Mr. Prior is on the border line of making the team, hopefully he will accept a AAA job. We could use his experience in the event we get a rash of injuries in the bullpen etc.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by goreds2

Thank goodness a Cubs fan cannot join RedsZone and invade this thread. Prior was so good in his initial years that Tom Seaver asked for his autograph. If Mr. Prior is on the border line of making the team, hopefully he will accept a AAA job. We could use his experience in the event we get a rash of injuries in the bullpen etc.

Prior is NOT in big league camp. If the Reds offer him a AAA job, he will accept it because he is coming into spring training with the plan of being in AAA.