Ryan Braun going down?

[scott91575]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

What evidence to you have that steroids or HGH helps weight lifters and swimmers and football players?

Olympic records and world records in weight-lifting, swimming and track & field have been broken year after year. Just this past Olympics many records were broken. If PEDs had been so helpful to athletes in the steroid era then why have their records been broken by clean athletes in recent years under stringent PED testing? If steroids were so effective those cheaters' records should still be in effect but they were broken long ago.

Blood doping in cycling is a bit different because they were injecting themselves with extra red-blood cells before races to improve their endurance. That was likely very effective, but it is not a steroid or PED.

Wow, just wow. So now you are saying PED's don't help strength and even something like swimming. Just wow. Alright, you are to be put on ignore and I can't say anything more because I would get banned.

[scott91575]

Originally Posted by jojo

Again, the correct conclusion is that there is a lack of scientific evidence for the benefits of HGH on baseball players.

again, as I have stated multiple times, HGH benefits are when combined with steroids. On top of that, there are studies that HGH increases lean muscle mass. So it does have some benefits on it's own, albeit minimal.

I am done going in circles with you guys. It starts to feel like I am debating if the moon landing is real or not. Having to refute poor data and psuedo science is getting real annoying.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by scott91575

again, as I have stated multiple times, HGH benefits are when combined with steroids. On top of that, there are studies that HGH increases lean muscle mass. So it does have some benefits on it's own, albeit minimal.

I am done going in circles with you guys. It starts to feel like I am debating if the moon landing is real or not. Having to refute poor data and psuedo science is getting real annoying.

Then get off the unicyle.... the scientific, peer-reviewed literature does not support an argument that HGH benefits baseball players.

[Chip R]

I saw this article the other day when RedsZone was down and thought it would be interesting to share this and have people see this from a player's point of view who was basically a lifelong minor leaguer.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...rticleid=19717

[edabbs44]

Lebron now mentioned in the scandal. Not really the NYT reporting, but it's something I guess. This would be about as surprising as the sun coming up tomorrow.

http://ibnsportswrap.com/article.php?articleID=28

[Homer Bailey]

http://www.sportsgrid.com/mlb/robins...s-this-season/

Consider this the bombshell before the bombshell, should this prophecy eventually come true. Joe Bisceglie from Dog And Pony Show tweeted Monday afternoon that four of baseball’s biggest bats, including three New York Yankees and two formerly implicated players, will each be slapped with 50-game first-offense PED suspensions. They are, of course, Robinson Cano, Alex Rodriguez, Curtis Granderson, and Ryan Braun.

This same source was correct on the Melky Cabrera news last summer.

[RedsfaninMT]

Originally Posted by Homer Bailey

http://www.sportsgrid.com/mlb/robins...s-this-season/



This same source was correct on the Melky Cabrera news last summer.

If that source is correct and those players are all suspended...WOW! I guess I shouldn't be surprised anymore about these stories. Seems to me the penalties need to be upped. One offense, gone for 162 games. Second offense, done playing baseball.

[Wonderful Monds]

Originally Posted by Homer Bailey

http://www.sportsgrid.com/mlb/robins...s-this-season/



This same source was correct on the Melky Cabrera news last summer.

WHOA


RIP Yankees

[Wonderful Monds]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Lebron now mentioned in the scandal. Not really the NYT reporting, but it's something I guess. This would be about as surprising as the sun coming up tomorrow.

http://ibnsportswrap.com/article.php?articleID=28

Why? That would actually be surprising to me.

Now if we heard that Jordan juiced back in the day or Kobe, that would not surprise me.

[Wonderful Monds]

Originally Posted by 757690

It is a logical fallacy to conclude from the fact that there was no significant, explainable (sans steroid use) increase in power or run production from 1995-2005 in MLB, that steroids do not increase an individual's ability to hit for power or his run production.

As I stated before, in order to make any such correlation between steroid use and any numbers from 1995-2005, we have to assume that steroid use was dramatically more in that time period than any other by all of MLB. We simply have no proof of that. In fact, it probably isn't true.

What we do know, what is indisputable, is that certain players took steroids, and their numbers in power and overall run production vastly increased, even during ages in which those normally decline.

We also know that certain Olympic athletes took steroids and become better at their sports. We know this about weightlifters and body builders. We know this about football players as well. In fact, we know this about athletes from nearly every sport.

And if you want even more proof, I have been taking steroids, per doctor's prescription, for over a decade, and will be taking them for the rest of my life. I also know dozens of other individuals in my similar health circumstances (organ transplant), who also have been taking steroids for years. All of us have gained between 25-50 pounds, in less than six months of taking the steroids, and those that work out have gained almost all of that in muscle (I'm am not one of them, unfortunately, lol). All of us became significantly stronger. I can only imagine what steroids would do for a professional athlete.

You also mentioned that there is no proof that steroids helps in healing from injuries. I have no idea what the research on that says, but I do know that last year, I went into massive kidney failure, and risked losing my transplanted kidney. In the hospital, I was given what was called "the nuclear option," which was to flood my body with massive amounts of steroids. The normal daily dose for a serious injury is 50 mg a day. I was given 1200 mg a day for a week. It worked. It was brutal on my system, took six months for my body to recover from the steroids, but it saved my kidney, and brought it back to almost where it was before the failure.

So forgive me if I am not convinced by your graphs, numbers and links to "experts." I can tell you from personal experience, that steroids did make me heal faster and better, and did make me stronger.

Yeah, quite frankly the assertion that steroids don't make a difference is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read here.

[edabbs44]

I'm still waiting for some sort of sanction against a team.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

I'm still waiting for some sort of sanction against a team.

Don't hold your breath

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Don't hold your breath

Eh, maybe but I don't think it is out of the realm. The NO bounty case may have opened some doors.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Eh, maybe but I don't think it is out of the realm. The NO bounty case may have opened some doors.

Yeah, that turned out well.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Yeah, that turned out well.

Turned out pretty badly for the 2012 Saints.