Ohio State Basketball 2012-2013

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by redsfan1995

Wow what a win I have never seen Craft play with this much confidence before. Him and Scott were terrific they will create problems in the tournament.

Craft's shots to beat the shot clock were absolute killers. Very impressive.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

Craft's shots to beat the shot clock were absolute killers. Very impressive.

First time this season OSU played a great game and finished. It was a game that probably solidifies them with a 3 seed at worst. Baring and epic collapse against Illinois as well as losing to a bad team in the B1G tournament. Last night proves what can happen if they get some complimentary scoring. Craft was awesome last night, Scott was as disruptive as I have seen him, and Thompson provided some early scoring. The thing with guys like Thompson, Smith Jr, and even Scott, they can score if they are confident. Too often they don't look for their shot and it hurts the offense. Those guys playing confidence make this team very tough to beat.

Now to IU, sans Olidepo, this teams lacks toughness. For a team as good as they are they just didn't have the toughness when someone hits them in the face. Crean's style is to outscore you and it shows. There were several times where the ball wasn't even in the hoop and Zeller was taking off instead of rebounding. There was a play late in the game where the announcers mentioned a planned flop where #11 hit the deck and the assistants on the bench jumped up wanting an offensive foul. Kind of a bush league play for a team as good as IU.

Then you IU guys may be able to help, but whats the deal with the entire celebration after the game. They clinched a tie for the B1G title and go on to celebrate by getting hats and cutting down the nets? I get the entire senior day thing, but celebrating a co-B1G championship is kinda like kissing your sister when you consider it could be a 3-4 way tie. I still think IU is the favorite but all will depend on matchups.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

First time this season OSU played a great game and finished. It was a game that probably solidifies them with a 3 seed at worst. Baring and epic collapse against Illinois as well as losing to a bad team in the B1G tournament. Last night proves what can happen if they get some complimentary scoring. Craft was awesome last night, Scott was as disruptive as I have seen him, and Thompson provided some early scoring. The thing with guys like Thompson, Smith Jr, and even Scott, they can score if they are confident. Too often they don't look for their shot and it hurts the offense. Those guys playing confidence make this team very tough to beat.

Now to IU, sans Olidepo, this teams lacks toughness. For a team as good as they are they just didn't have the toughness when someone hits them in the face. Crean's style is to outscore you and it shows. There were several times where the ball wasn't even in the hoop and Zeller was taking off instead of rebounding. There was a play late in the game where the announcers mentioned a planned flop where #11 hit the deck and the assistants on the bench jumped up wanting an offensive foul. Kind of a bush league play for a team as good as IU.

Then you IU guys may be able to help, but whats the deal with the entire celebration after the game. They clinched a tie for the B1G title and go on to celebrate by getting hats and cutting down the nets? I get the entire senior day thing, but celebrating a co-B1G championship is kinda like kissing your sister when you consider it could be a 3-4 way tie. I still think IU is the favorite but all will depend on matchups.

The celebration was lame. It would have been somewhat lame even if they had won IMO. I think you should only cut down nets when you win the game.

That said, I understand the reasoning behind it. Like the Sweet 16 rings for the seniors on last year's team(which I also think were pretty lame) Crean wanted to really show his appreciation to these two classes who have brought IU back from the precipice. Going forward, I hope it won't be the case that every little accomplishment is celebrated.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Now to IU, sans Olidepo, this teams lacks toughness. For a team as good as they are they just didn't have the toughness when someone hits them in the face. Crean's style is to outscore you and it shows. There were several times where the ball wasn't even in the hoop and Zeller was taking off instead of rebounding. There was a play late in the game where the announcers mentioned a planned flop where #11 hit the deck and the assistants on the bench jumped up wanting an offensive foul. Kind of a bush league play for a team as good as IU.

I think the toughness aspect is a little bit overstated. It's not as if Michigan State isn't a physical team. IU was tougher than tOSU in the first matchup in my opinion. While I think that's the only way to beat IU, God knows you won't outrun them, but I don't think it's like its a surefire way to win.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

The celebration was lame. It would have been somewhat lame even if they had won IMO. I think you should only cut down nets when you win the game.

That said, I understand the reasoning behind it. Like the Sweet 16 rings for the seniors on last year's team(which I also think were pretty lame) Crean wanted to really show his appreciation to these two classes who have brought IU back from the precipice. Going forward, I hope it won't be the case that every little accomplishment is celebrated.

Fair enough. Crean went about rebuilding IU's program his own way. Because I am a fan of OSU Thad also had to rebuild a program, granted it wasn't as down as IU's, but it had a post season ban and such. He was able to rebuild the club with one recruiting class (taking advantage of Mike Davis inabilities in Indiana). But Crean decided to do it from the ground up, take some massive lumps, and build a damn good club.

All that said there were a couple of things that I always thought were odd. I don't remember exactly, but I thought there was some kind of pep rally type thingy when he landed Zeller. Then you had the whole "family party" when IU beat a top 25 team for the first time under Crean.

Crean has turned IU from a doormat to a very good program, but some of the stuff they do makes you go WTF?!?!?

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

I think the toughness aspect is a little bit overstated. It's not as if Michigan State isn't a physical team. IU was tougher than tOSU in the first matchup in my opinion. While I think that's the only way to beat IU, God knows you won't outrun them, but I don't think it's like its a surefire way to win.

I think the Bucks guards were the key. Their play was far superior to IU's backcourt on both ends of the court.

I also think it was a "bush league" thing they did after the game.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

The celebration was lame. It would have been somewhat lame even if they had won IMO. I think you should only cut down nets when you win the game.

That said, I understand the reasoning behind it. Like the Sweet 16 rings for the seniors on last year's team(which I also think were pretty lame) Crean wanted to really show his appreciation to these two classes who have brought IU back from the precipice. Going forward, I hope it won't be the case that every little accomplishment is celebrated.

I think this is very fair for a fan's observation. The celebration is lame, as is the separate banner for this squad. I get the comeback from the dead of the program, but who is he really wanting to memorialize? And, quite honestly, the comeback from the dead was self-inflicted from hiring Kelvin Sampson. Indiana was still relevant under Mike Davis.

For a frame of reference, Ohio State bottomed out twice recently, once when Ayers got the program in trouble, and then when O'Brien did the same. I don't recall all the drama with future success that I see out of the Indiana corner when the Bucks revived the program twice in the same time frame. Maybe a bit with Tressel in football (since OSU football and IU bball are similar in fanatacism), but then they won a NC. Honor them with what's appropriate for the accomplishments, but please quit with the "savior of the program" mentality. It's quite stomach turning.

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by traderumor

I think this is very fair for a fan's observation. The celebration is lame, as is the separate banner for this squad. I get the comeback from the dead of the program, but who is he really wanting to memorialize? And, quite honestly, the comeback from the dead was self-inflicted from hiring Kelvin Sampson. Indiana was still relevant under Mike Davis.

For a frame of reference, Ohio State bottomed out twice recently, once when Ayers got the program in trouble, and then when O'Brien did the same. I don't recall all the drama with future success that I see out of the Indiana corner when the Bucks revived the program twice in the same time frame. Maybe a bit with Tressel in football (since OSU football and IU bball are similar in fanatacism), but then they won a NC. Honor them with what's appropriate for the accomplishments, but please quit with the "savior of the program" mentality. It's quite stomach turning.

Good stuff!

Werent there some issues with Gary Williams as well?

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by traderumor

I think this is very fair for a fan's observation. The celebration is lame, as is the separate banner for this squad. I get the comeback from the dead of the program, but who is he really wanting to memorialize? And, quite honestly, the comeback from the dead was self-inflicted from hiring Kelvin Sampson. Indiana was still relevant under Mike Davis.

For a frame of reference, Ohio State bottomed out twice recently, once when Ayers got the program in trouble, and then when O'Brien did the same. I don't recall all the drama with future success that I see out of the Indiana corner when the Bucks revived the program twice in the same time frame. Maybe a bit with Tressel in football (since OSU football and IU bball are similar in fanatacism), but then they won a NC. Honor them with what's appropriate for the accomplishments, but please quit with the "savior of the program" mentality. It's quite stomach turning.

Its hard to make a basketball to football comparison but I agree with a lot of this. While Ohio State football never saw the depths that IU basketball did the fan base's expectations are generally similar.

I've said all along that Crean cleaned out all the cupboards as a means of self preservation/promotion. While it's true Dakich had thrown some of the bad apples out already, the majority of the kids remaining could have been brought back into the fold. Crean knew that if he came back with a team of decent players(Jordan Crawford included) but produced mediocre results, it would have made for a tougher story to sell. But if he came in and completely cleaned house, he could sell the story that the early struggles were all part of the plan. Basically 6-26 with 1 scholarship player returning was an easier sell than 10-18 with 3 guys returning.

By gutting the program, he basically granted himself immunity for two years and after those two seasons, as the team was beginning to turn the corner, he landed Cody and Yogi and the rest of the recruits and got himself one more year. In the end this was all he needed.

[RiverRat13]

Originally Posted by Assembly Hall

Good stuff!

Werent there some issues with Gary Williams as well?

Williams did a nice job building the team that Ayers took over featuring Jimmy Jackson. He left because (on the record) his alma mater needed him. Off the record the issue was Gary messing around with OSU employees and cheerleaders.

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

Its hard to make a basketball to football comparison but I agree with a lot of this. While Ohio State football never saw the depths that IU basketball did the fan base's expectations are generally similar.

I've said all along that Crean cleaned out all the cupboards as a means of self preservation/promotion. While it's true Dakich had thrown some of the bad apples out already, the majority of the kids remaining could have been brought back into the fold. Crean knew that if he came back with a team of decent players(Jordan Crawford included) but produced mediocre results, it would have made for a tougher story to sell. But if he came in and completely cleaned house, he could sell the story that the early struggles were all part of the plan. Basically 6-26 with 1 scholarship player returning was an easier sell than 10-18 with 3 guys returning.

By gutting the program, he basically granted himself immunity for two years and after those two seasons, as the team was beginning to turn the corner, he landed Cody and Yogi and the rest of the recruits and got himself one more year. In the end this was all he needed.

Interesting assessment. I cant argue one bit with it other than 10-18 comment. They would have had 3 starters returning off a team that was pretty dang good until the Sampson ordeal(Armon Bassett along with Crawford) and a pretty good big man in Eli Holman. I think the team would win more than 10 games. But I see your point.

I do concur with what the Bucks fans are saying. They have had several coaching changes concerning "wrong doing" and have bounced back everytime. The same can be said for Michigan ever since the "Fab 5". I really dont know why IU nation makes such a big deal out of what Crean has done, but they do. Other "big time" programs have walked down the same path. And to be honest this aint the first time IU has walked it either. Bob Knight was hired to clean up a mess himself.

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by RiverRat13

Williams did a nice job building the team that Ayers took over featuring Jimmy Jackson. He left because (on the record) his alma mater needed him. Off the record the issue was Gary messing around with OSU employees and cheerleaders.

Never heard that......I was thinking it had something to do with Brad Sellars who transferred from Wisconsin.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Assembly Hall

I do concur with what the Bucks fans are saying. They have had several coaching changes concerning "wrong doing" and have bounced back everytime. The same can be said for Michigan ever since the "Fab 5". I really dont know why IU nation makes such a big deal out of what Crean has done, but they do. Other "big time" programs have walked down the same path. And to be honest this aint the first time IU has walked it either. Bob Knight was hired to clean up a mess himself.

I guess as an outsider everything that Crean has done off the court seems odd to me. To compound on what you have said, there have been many big time programs who have gone through what Indiana has and haven't reacted the same way. Don't get me wrong, I get the accomplishment especially when you take into consideration the path Crean has taken. I think its somewhat similar to what Cronin did at UC, albeit on a different level. IU basketball has a much bigger profile than UC does.

After hearing about the events of last night I am kinda hoping this happens. It was documented during the telecast that IU is going to hang a special B1G Championship banner for this season. From my perspective I think "Your IU basketball, your supposed to win B1G titles." But I am hoping they do lose to UM and there is a 4 way tie and they hang that special banner. Outright titles are something to be celebrated, co-titles are like kissing your sister, hanging a banner for a 4-way tie is kinda stupid.

[Revering4Blue]

Originally Posted by Assembly Hall

Never heard that......I was thinking it had something to do with Brad Sellars who transferred from Wisconsin.

Sellers never played for Gary Williams, who replaced Eldon Miller in '86.

[Assembly Hall]

Originally Posted by Revering4Blue

Sellers never played for Gary Williams, who replaced Eldon Miller in '86.

You are right. I remember some controversy surrounding Sellars going to Ohio St. Just seems like I remember Williams having some issues as well in Columbus. I cant remember.