Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

Mays never got that fat when he was 40. Neither did Musial, Ted Williams, McCovey, Mike Schmidt, or countless other aging power hitters.

Stargell did, Frank Howard, Killebrew and other aging power hitters

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Stargell did, Frank Howard, Killebrew and other aging power hitters

Makes sense but I think there is a difference between guys like those and an athlete like Griffey. Griffey was an athletic specimen.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

Mays never got that fat when he was 40. Neither did Musial, Ted Williams, McCovey, Mike Schmidt, or countless other aging power hitters.

Weight training also didn't exist, which was the point being made I think. Jr. may well have taken the trade off of accepting a little fat in exchange for muscle...or he may have just gone overboard with Zebra Cakes. We'll never know. Either way, Prince Fielder is obese. Had Griffey played fifteen pounds lighter, I don't think his fate would've been any different.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Makes sense but I think there is a difference between guys like those and an athlete like Griffey. Griffey was an athletic specimen.

He was. Then he has leg injury after leg injury.

[NeilHamburger]

Joey Votto will still be playing for the Reds when he's 39. What are the odds his body looks like that? I would bet almost anything it won't. Why? Absolute dedication. My dad is 60 and is in better shape than Griffey was in that picture, and he still lifts 3 times a week. He's not as strong now as he used to be, but at 40 he was lifting virtually as much as he did at 25 due to an advanced routine.

You don't have to get fat as you get older in order to retain power. You just don't. I have been involved with fitness my entire life and that's just not true. He needed protein to build muscle, but with advanced nutrition and the best personal trainers in the world there is no reason to be fat.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

Joey Votto will still be playing for the Reds when he's 39. What are the odds his body looks like that? I would bet almost anything it won't. Why? Absolute dedication. My dad is 60 and is in better shape than Griffey was in that picture, and he still lifts 3 times a week. He's not as strong now as he used to be, but at 40 he was lifting virtually as much as he did at 25 due to an advanced routine.

You don't have to get fat as you get older in order to retain power. You just don't. I have been involved with fitness my entire life and that's just not true. He needed protein to build muscle, but with advanced nutrition and the best personal trainers in the world there is no reason to be fat.

How many leg injuries do you project for Joey Votto in his 30s? Wasn't there also a shoulder injury in there too?

[Blitz Dorsey]

LOL at the Griffey fanboys.

The truth hurts. Dude was lazy as heck.

"Does a cheetah stretch before it chases its prey?"

Yeah, amazing a guy that would say that to a reporter -- completely serious -- when asked about his stretching routine would end up with hamstring injuries.

Also, waiting to hear the fanboys explain Griffey's double chin and overall pudgy appearance. He was lazy. (Not just when falling asleep in the Mariners' clubhouse during a game.)

[bigredmechanism]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

Mays never got that fat when he was 40. Neither did Musial, Ted Williams, McCovey, Mike Schmidt, or countless other aging power hitters.

And you just named a few of the best hitters of all time. It's worth noting that every single one of them except for Ted Williams showed serious decline in their late thirties. That Williams did not is testament, IMO, that he was probably the best hitter who ever lived.

Griffey did not produce with age as well as Ted Williams, for sure, but at what point does that become "Griffey was lazy?" What kind of standard is that to hold a player to? "You better be the best that ever lived or you are lazy!" Maybe he just wasn't the best that ever lived. Great: yes. G.O.A.T.: no.

I am as bummed as anyone that KGJ didn't lead the Reds to a world series, but give the guy a break. People age, man. He wanted to come here and dominate, and injuries and time unfortunately derailed that. Seriously: the best player in the world wanted to come to Cincy to help us win a championship. It's sad, because if he was healthy, he would have been a hero. But since he aged like a human being naturally does, ungrateful fans call him lazy and question his work ethic.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

Joey Votto will still be playing for the Reds when he's 39. What are the odds his body looks like that? I would bet almost anything it won't. Why? Absolute dedication. My dad is 60 and is in better shape than Griffey was in that picture, and he still lifts 3 times a week. He's not as strong now as he used to be, but at 40 he was lifting virtually as much as he did at 25 due to an advanced routine.

You don't have to get fat as you get older in order to retain power. You just don't. I have been involved with fitness my entire life and that's just not true. He needed protein to build muscle, but with advanced nutrition and the best personal trainers in the world there is no reason to be fat.

Exactly. Someone dedicated to the game and being the best they could be would NEVER have gotten overweight and out-of-shape like Griffey was for the latter part of his career. It's almost pointless to debate this with my fellow Reds fans who can't bear to hear anything negative about the beloved "Junior." But in my years following many different sports, I can't think of a star player that was more lazy than him. He got by on talent alone in Seattle for years and never developed a good work ethic, IMO.

[bigredmechanism]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

LOL at the Griffey fanboys.

You are damn right I am fan of Griffey.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by bigredmechanism

You are damn right I am fan of Griffey.

I will always be a Ken Griffey Jr. fan. But there is a difference, IMO between being a fan and a "fanboy." The latter term insinuates a person that is so blinded by their love for a player (or team) that they can't see the truth.

Griffey was lazy IMO. Many disagree, including yourself. That's fine. We have no way proving that he was lazy or not lazy. We'll have to pull a Ron Burgundy and agree to disagree.

#WhenInRome

[BCubb2003]

It's hard to believe that Boston fans and sports writers used to criticize Ted Williams, too.

I have a hard time deciding. Griffey wasn't a greyhound like Eric Davis (who was criticized by fans for being too fragile) and probably could have worked out more, but he made it back several times with his leg bolted together. That says something about him, too.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by BCubb2003

It's hard to believe that Boston fans and sports writers used to criticize Ted Williams, too.

I have a hard time deciding. Griffey wasn't a greyhound like Eric Davis (who was criticized by fans for being too fragile) and probably could have worked out more, but he made it back several times with his leg bolted together. That says something about him, too.

Oh, I think he loved playing the game. There's no question about that. That's why we all fell in love with him, even when he was playing for the Mariners.

I just question whether he was willing to put in the necessary work off the field, especially later in his career when it was paramount for him to do so.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Makes sense but I think there is a difference between guys like those and an athlete like Griffey. Griffey was an athletic specimen.

True but all the aforementioned three were. Howard played college basketball at OSU, Google a Stargell card from 1967 then 1979 that's just 12 years man.


The Killer in a Senators uniform isn't dumpy I'm telling ya that.



Guys get thick, even athletes and the even the top ones.

[Salukifan2]

Originally Posted by bigredmechanism

And you just named a few of the best hitters of all time. It's worth noting that every single one of them except for Ted Williams showed serious decline in their late thirties. That Williams did not is testament, IMO, that he was probably the best hitter who ever lived.

Griffey is one of the greatest hitters of all time and was one of the most fantastic athletes to ever play baseball. Its not the decline of production, but rather a decline in his overall fitness which obviously declined more than it probably should have