Miley back for the '05 season

[Reds4Life]

Originally Posted by traderumor

When did Joe Torre become a good manager?

Yea, why would be he considered a good manager, he's only got a a few world series rings and few 100+ win seasons in the last 5 or 6 years.

[LvJ]

Originally Posted by Reds4Life

Yea, why would be he considered a good manager, he's only got a a few world series rings and few 100+ win seasons in the last 5 or 6 years.

I will not argue if he's good or not, but c'mon now - give any big league manager those players and it'll be darn hard NOT to win. Egos or not.

[Matt700wlw]

Bob Boone could win with that lineup

[johngalt]

Originally Posted by Reds4Life

Yea, why would be he considered a good manager, he's only got a a few world series rings and few 100+ win seasons in the last 5 or 6 years.

The point is he "became" a good manager at the same time he joined the Yankees and all of their talented players and resources. I think Torre's a pretty decent manager, but you'd have to be a horrible manager to not win a World Series or two with the players they've had and the front office's commitment to winning each year.

[Matt700wlw]

Originally Posted by johngalt

The point is he "became" a good manager at the same time he joined the Yankees and all of their talented players and resources. I think Torre's a pretty decent manager, but you'd have to be a horrible manager to not win a World Series or two with the players they've had and the front office's commitment to winning each year.

A commitment to winning...someone inform that billionaire, Carl Lindner what that is

That used to be the commitment of the Reds, but that was a long time ago

Originally Posted by dman

We need to clarify something here. Is it that the Reds can't afford $2M/yr for Lou or is it that they won't part with the $2M/yr for him? I think we all know what the true answer is here.

EXACTLY. The Reds can afford to pay a $2 million manager that will get more out of his players than most other managers could even dream of. But, why the Reds would rather allocate that money to crappola pitchers is beyond me.

Originally Posted by CougarQuest

What is nice about this is this gives Dan O'Brien all off season to work on players. And the players that are here and free agents who will be contacted know who the manager/coaches are immediately.

LOL, oh the irony. DOB will work on players? What's he going to do? Sign an ace pitcher (not one whose name starts with 'ace')? Very unlikely. Sign really good bullpen pitching? Yeah, right. Likely, he'll just sit in his hotel room and ponder what he'll be doing after the 2005 season.

Originally Posted by RosieRed

Maybe you're referring to ownership here, but I'll just add the obligatory reminder that "leadership" just changed last year (in DanO and Miley).

And I fail to see how Lou or Torre could have the Reds over .500 with this staff. How do you (and others) figure that?

Because managers like Miley hold a team meeting once in a blue moon, and patting players on the butt. Managers like Piniella DEMAND that you perform, and when you don't, you will be sitting on the bench for a long, long time. Managers like Piniella have balls, and have a way of getting ownership, CEO's and accountants to make financial moves to better the ballclub. Managers like Miley are just "glad to have a job".

[Reds4Life]

Torre was given players no doubt, but keeping the ego's inline is another major part of managing a club like that Yankees and it many ways is just as important as some of the on field decisions. Torre is a master at this, just like Phil Jackson is, and IMO that DOES make him a good manager. He and the Yankees are a perfect fit.

[WVRedsFan]

Originally Posted by ODERED

Because managers like Miley hold a team meeting once in a blue moon, and patting players on the butt. Managers like Piniella DEMAND that you perform, and when you don't, you will be sitting on the bench for a long, long time. Managers like Piniella have balls, and have a way of getting ownership, CEO's and accountants to make financial moves to better the ballclub. Managers like Miley are just "glad to have a job".

Rosie and Traderumor,

Just for the record, I was referring to both . I see this whole organization from the front office to the field management to the pitching and hitting and to the PR folks as being really sub-bad. The talent on the field ranges from very good to horrible. And still we stand still and don't try to shake it up. We're losing 11-2 as I type and we give the manager and the whole staff a and say we are building. Where?

I know Torre is not a name manager like maybe a Lou or a (forgive me) Felipe Alou, but it's been proven that the greatest players in the world won't win unless they have some leadership. I think Joe provides that and I know Lou does. Yes, our bullpen is horrible, but a guy really interested would work with the front office to shed himself of these minor leaguers. A Joe Torre would have the leverage to demand some changes. They like Dave. He's just glad to be here (although inside, he wishes he had that power, I'd bet).

[Unassisted]

Originally Posted by dman

We need to clarify something here. Is it that the Reds can't afford $2M/yr for Lou or is it that they won't part with the $2M/yr for him? I think we all know what the true answer is here.

The budget is finite, ~$45M. Spend 2 million of that on a manager and that leaves less for players. I don't have a problem with the club not spending $2M on a manager. We don't need to haul out the tired argument that Lindner needs to open the wallet wider, either... we just need to accept that this is the budget ownership has set.

[Reds4Life]

Originally Posted by Unassisted

... we just need to accept that this is the budget ownership has set.

People need to accept the losing that goes with that payroll figure too and realize that until the ownership group spends some money this team is going nowhere.

[Matt700wlw]

At one point, they did....Griffey and Larkin

Unfortunatel, the team still went nowhere.....so they figure, why do it again?

....And we will continue to go nowhere until they decide to spend money, and spend it wisely

Originally Posted by Matt700wlw

At one point, they did....Griffey and Larkin

Unfortunatel, the team still went nowhere.....so they figure, why do it again?

....And we will continue to go nowhere until they decide to spend money, and spend it wisely

I can sort of understand the signing of Griffey....but, the guy by all accounts was "aging". His career in the big leagues started earlier than most, and logically that would mean his career would end at an earlier age than most (compared to the other stars in the game). If he hadn't broken down physically, he MIGHT have been killing the ball and this team would probably have a ~.500 record. Bowden might still be the GM of the Reds, and it would be a guarantee the organization would be all giddy inside had Junior performed as predicted. It didn't happen of course, and the damage has been done. In fact, the tsunami continues to make ripples in the organization.

The signing of Larkin to a rediculously expensive "loyalty contract" was just plain stupid. The Reds (don't know who it was that OK'd the contract) stepped completely away from thinking about the future of the club success-wise, and focused completely on avoiding a PR hit with that contract. I mean, come on, most of us would probably not even be thinking of Barry in a Reds uniform at this point, had he not re-signed with the Reds. He probably would have been hurt somewhere else, too, and be hitting .270 or so, and the whole world would be waiting for his impending retirement. It wasn't Barry that really wanted to stay with the Reds and finish his career here. It was all about Barry wanting big, big bucks and he basically blackmailed the team in public, resulting in a stupid contract that he IMO has not come close to earning. Worse, it helped to prevent the Reds from even acquiring a younger SS with real potential to take Barry's place. Sorry, Lopez is just a pretty good utility player IMO.

But, just like the Reds do with their blackmailing of the fans with the "you didn't come to the games and fill every seat, therefore we have no money to spend", they'll probably decide to not sign any noteworthy players "because the other ones we signed didn't do anything".

[LINEDRIVER]

Im personally dissappointed that Gully has been asked to return. This pitching staff hasnt done squat in many years, and while I know that Gullett can only do just so much with the crap he has, I say that after all these years, it's time to hire a new pitching coach and wipe the slate clean.

I'm having problems with Gullett's apparent philosophy of not throwing enough pitches inside and Gullett's overall pitch calling philsophy. As Cory Lidle commented just before being traded, he finally realized that he wasnt throwing enough up and down and in and out, just wasnt mixing it up enough, the pitch calling was TOO predictable for the opposing batters.