OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

[BadFundamentals]

OPS vs. OBP vs. BAS

OPS is an over-simpflification. It attempts to give a catch-all appraisal but in so doing can overstate or understate a player's value to his team.

OBP and "BAS" are better. The best TEAMS WIN games when each individual performs his role at a high level inning and after inning for 162 games. In most cases, this means top of the order guys need to get on base somehow/some way, middle of the order guys need to drive them in. Bottom of order guys need to do what situation dictates.

Better to appraise your top of the order type players based on their speed, bat control and JUST OBP. Appraise your "rbi guys" based on their Batting Average and Slugging.

On a basketball team if you have a 7 footer who can clean the boards it is not going to do any good to have him sit outside and launch threes when you have other players who can do that equally well and benefit from the 7 footer's rebounding. Within the context of this team the 7 footer's long range shooting is a relative non-factor. To give him undue credit/value for that ability overstates his team contribution.


For my boy Dunn, appraise him based on his batting average and slugging. Then give the list of how he rates amongst other players in the league. This is closer to his true value.

[Ravenlord]

better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.

[NC Reds]

Dunn rules. :RedinDC:

[westofyou]

This is closer to his true value.

Truth is the construct of "ones" reality.

Baseball is a game about not making outs and generating on base skills into runs at the expense of the other teams weakness.

Adam Dunn doesn't make outs as much as other players on the Reds.

Therefore he doesn't "suck" he isn't worth "hating" nor is he worth dragging through the mud every day here on Redszone.

Baseball has a place for the Harmon Clayton Killebrew's in the world, they provided a vaulable service and have since Cap Anson and Ned Williamson wowed them.

Inside baseball died with the Kaiser, even 60-70's baseball worshipped at the alter of slugging percentage and on base skills.

The game is always changing, but the Reds went out and got Long John Reilly in 1883 because he was big strong guy with on base skills.

Just like Adam Dunn is 120 years later.

[BadFundamentals]

Your point? or was that just drama?

I have a point. It is that Dunn's value to this team is overstated. And if you care about seeing the Reds WIN then (given their shoestring budget), it would be a mistake to pay big $$$ for him.

And on a larger scale ANY PLAYER on any team of the strikeout, big swing, BB prone, error-prone, bad fundamentals - type would likely be overstated (when OPS appraised) to some degree.

You go ahead and live in your nostalgia if you choose. I'd like to see another Reds pennant race - the sooner the better ! !

Originally Posted by westofyou

Truth is the construct of "ones" reality.

Baseball is a game about not making outs and generating on base skills into runs at the expense of the other teams weakness.

Adam Dunn doesn't make outs as much as other players on the Reds.

Therefore he doesn't "suck" he isn't worth "hating" nor is he worth dragging through the mud every day here on Redszone.

Baseball has a place for the Harmon Clayton Killebrew's in the world, they provided a vaulable service and have since Cap Anson and Ned Williamson wowed them.

Inside baseball died with the Kaiser, even 60-70's baseball worshipped at the alter of slugging percentage and on base skills.

The game is always changing, but the Reds went out and got Long John Reilly in 1883 because he was big strong guy with on base skills.

Just like Adam Dunn is 120 years later.

[wheels]

And getting rid of Adam Dunn will get the Reds into a pennant race more quickly....How?

[westofyou]

Your point?

I guess it's that your reality is skewed.

That and your handle is pretty smallminded.

[BadFundamentals]

Thanks for the help on straightening out my reality. And leave it to you to take this off topic and away from the point/argument being made.

Originally Posted by westofyou

I guess it's that your reality is skewed.

That and your handle is pretty smallminded.

[BadFundamentals]

No, not in and of itself. If the Reds had the budget I'd be in favor of keeping Dunn.

Even with his problems, Dunn could work for a team when batting 6th or 7th (occasionally 5th). And worst case, he'd be a threat off the bench who could play some LF and 1B.

Problem is that with the Reds budget (and what he likely stands to make) they can't afford the luxury of carrying a player of his type.

Originally Posted by wheels

And getting rid of Adam Dunn will get the Reds into a pennant race more quickly....How?

[LvJ]

...

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

better yet, use Runs Created and Run Created per Game.

[wheels]

Can't this guy find someone else to bag on?

It seems kinda creepy in an obsessed fan kinda way.

I wonder if he's got some wierd shrine set up in the basement or something. :MandJ:

[wheels]

A threat off the bench?

You can't be serious.

[Stewie]

Originally Posted by DunnHater

No, not in and of itself. If the Reds had the budget I'd be in favor of keeping Dunn.

Even with his problems, Dunn could work for a team when batting 6th or 7th (occasionally 5th). And worst case, he'd be a threat off the bench who could play some LF and 1B.

Problem is that with the Reds budget (and what he likely stands to make) they can't afford the luxury of carrying a player of his type.

I don't get it. Do you hate Adam Dunn because of what he does, or the way the Reds are using him? Would you like him more if the Reds batted him 2nd, because of his OBP?

[Redmachine2003]

I agree that Dunn has peaked at his ripe age of 24 and will not get any better and that his 46 hrs and 101 RBI's are not needed by the Reds. No one in baseball would throw him a huge long term deal or trade for him. You could find a player like him for a dime a dozen. PLEASE!!! With better protection in the line next year and Chambliss, Dunn could put up Bonds numbers with out the juice. Every team in baseball wouldn't be asking for Dunn in trades if he wasn't any good. With the New Roid issues in baseball you will see Hrs go down and Dunn stay at the top of the league. I really do think Dunn projects to at least a Thome and how much money does Jim make?

[MWM]

Dude, you're in so far over your head you don't even know it. You've yet to address a single argument in any thread that factually contradicts your belief. The only come back you've got is "Dunn's value is overstated" because you said so. You know, the information age has blessed us with the availability of all kinds of new, factual-based research that only enhances your understanding of the game. I suggest you take the time to learn about these advancements before you try to argue against them. Because it's ever so obvious from reading what you've written that you don't have clue #1 on any of it.