Bob Boone Supporters, Chime in Please! - Page 7 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

RedDog · 09-06-2002, 07:51 PM

I support Bob Boone and with the pitching that he has and oft-injured players, I think he has done a commendable job. McKeon is not in the picture but like Boone, a certain-player type of manager. Lets see:

What makes a great manager: Pitching and timely hitting

Torre: horrible manager before he took over Yankees. Great team, good pitching and he compliments it well.

Pinella: Has he ever won a WS? Won with less talent?

Baker: I think may be the best and with better pitching would win a WS. Never won a WS

Howe: Was on the chopping block last year until the pitching turned around. Great? Was horrible in Houston.

Cox: A winner now in Atlanta but look at the pitching.

Brenly: WS winner with pitching.

Alou: Good

Joe Morgan: Please!

Heck, the Yankees would win with either Jennifer Love-Hewitt and Halle Berry on the coaching staff! Enough of this subject. Boone bashing and support will go on for another year. .

RANDY IN INDY · 09-06-2002, 07:58 PM

Er..uh...let's see......Piniella took a Reds team that nobody expected to win to a World Series victory against the mighty and heavily favored Oakland A's and Tony Larussa. that would qualify on both counts, I believe.

guernsey · 09-06-2002, 08:13 PM

"Pinella: Has he ever won a WS?"

In a word, yes.

RANDY IN INDY · 09-06-2002, 09:21 PM

Did he really not know that Piniella won with the Reds in 1990? If he didn't, I don't know why I'm answering his dumb questions.

RedDog · 09-06-2002, 09:57 PM

Since you have all the answers, I thought I would ask some questions? thus....

Quote:

Has he ever won a WS?

and since you answered the dumb questions, well

RedsBaron · 09-06-2002, 10:48 PM

We have certainly covered some diverse topics in this thread. With regard to some prior posts regarding modern players not being well versed in baseball fundamentals, it should be noted that modern players are in much better physical condition than were players several decades ago. Prior to free agency, many players worked at other jobs in the off season to make extra money. For example, after going 23-7 with 265 strikeouts in 1963, Jim Maloney worked as a used car salesman in the off season. If a pitcher went 23-7 with 265 K's today, he would be able to afford to buy several car dealerships. Players are now able to spend much of the off season training and no longer report to spring training woefully out of shape. Players also generally eat better and train better during the season. The improved physical condition of players is probably one reason for the increased offensive production in recent years, and this improved conditioning somewhat offsets any decrease in fundamentals.

RedsBaron · 09-06-2002, 11:03 PM

March 1, 2003, Florida: Prior to the Reds first spring training game of the year, manager Jennifer Love Hewitt gave a brief pep talk to the team. Recalling the Reds run in first place last season, Hewitt told the squad "I Know What You Did Last Summer." Hewitt then admitted that injuries, coupled with hitting and pitching problems, had turned the Reds into "Heartbreakers" later that season, but, reurning to her upbeat theme, she predicted success in 2003 since "I Still Know What You Did Last Summer." With regard to the 2003 season, Hewitt said I "Can't Hardly Wait" and predicted increased fan support, particularly among "The Suburbans" and other areas outside Cincinnati.
Hewitt announced her starting rotation would be Dessens, Haynes, Dempster, Graves and Estes, calling it her "Party of Five." It'll be the "Time of Your Life." [Thanks to Amazon for help on these titles].
Hewitt commented that she had noticed that some Reds baserunners ignored the third base coach last year. She predicted this would not occur in 2003, as she introduced new coach Jennifer Lopez. However, in the ensuing game, there was an incident in the first inning. With Todd Walker on second and Austin Kearns on first, Adam Dunn hit a long drive in the right-center field gap. Dunn slid into third with a triple, only to discover
that Walker and Kearns were also occupying third base.
The Reds did rally to win the game, with one Reds player saying that Hewitt and the coaching staff caused the team to rise to the occasion.

RANDY IN INDY · 09-06-2002, 11:14 PM

RedsBaron,

Those are good points that you made about the conditioning of players now, as opposed to a couple of decades ago. I agree with what you say. With that said, why is it that pitchers cannot go nine innings with any regularity any more? They have a hard time going six or seven for the most part. That really baffles me, and I've yet to hear a "convincing" argument as to why that is. There is the argument about the bullpen specialists, but it seems that most teams are "burning up" their bullpens at an alarming rate. Overworked bullpens are the norm these days. Why can't the starters go longer?

SteelSD · 09-07-2002, 01:32 AM

Quote:

What makes a great manager: Pitching and timely hitting

Now, I thought that was a pretty ridiculous thing to say...

...then I read:

"Pinella: Has he ever won a WS? Won with less talent?"

It's much easier to cut through the chaff when one can qualify the knowlege level of the poster. Thanks for the save on my reading time R.D. I now know to skip right past any posts you make on the topic.

RedsBaron · 09-07-2002, 07:02 AM

Randy: I've been thinking for some time about the question you raised regarding the inability of today's starting pitchers to pitch complete games. I think part of the reason why there are so few complete games is that pitchers simply never throw enough, either as kids learning the game, or later in the minors with the expectations of pitching a complete game being lowered. I also suspect that another factor may be that pitchers need more pitches to complete a major league game today. I believe that strikeouts per innings are at an all time high, and I expect that walks per inning are also at at least 50 year highs. For example, in 1965 when Koufax had 27 complete games, followed by Marichal with 24 and Gibson and Drysdale with 20 each, no national league hitter walked as much as 100 times, with Joe Morgan leading the league with 97, followed by McCovey and Santo with 88. In today's game several players will walk more than 100 times a season; Bonds had, what, 170+ walks last year and may top 200 this year. More strikeouts and more walks per innings mean more pitches per inning. It is obviously easier to pitch a complete game if it takes you 100 pitches than if it takes you 140 pitches. I also suspect that on average today's starting pitchers may be enjoying longer careers as a result of not being overworked. I know there are always exceptions such as Warren Spahn, who I believe lost a 16 inning complete game to Marichal in 1963, 1-0, even though Spahn was 42 years old, but many of the great pitchers of the 1960's were done by the time they reached their early thirties and certainly didn't enjoy the success past age 35 experienced by Clemens, Schilling, Johnson, Maddux, Glavine, etc.

RANDY IN INDY · 09-07-2002, 08:32 AM

I agree with your assesment, RedsBaron. I think that teams like the Reds should be stressing to their starting pitchers that they want them to start going longer in games. The time to do that is at the minor league level. Stretch them out a little longer. Nobody is saying they have to go nine, but on the other end, four or five innings is ridiculous. The Reds burn up their bullpen early in the season, and it comes back and bites them late, every year. An extra inning or two every game by each starter would take a huge load off the pen. I think the key to it all is throwing strikes early in the count. Reds pitchers seem to have a problem doing that.

creek14 · 09-07-2002, 09:20 AM

For some odd reason, Steel, I would be willing to bet that Red Dog knows oodles about the game. Mega oodles.

RANDY IN INDY · 09-07-2002, 09:31 AM

He must be "playin' possum", creek, or "devils advocate".:evilgrin: That Piniella guy did win in 1990 with lesser talent, but he knew that, I'm sure.

letsgojunior · 09-07-2002, 01:03 PM

CINCINNATI (AP) - In a shocking transaction, Hollywood supercouple Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston purchased the Reds from former majority owner Carl Lindner. Pitt immediately confirmed that the coaching staff would consist of Jennifer Love Hewitt as manager, Halle Berry as hitting instructor, and Jennifer Lopez (J-Lo) as third base coach.

Pitt also confirmed that, due to the persistent requests made by relief pitcher Danny Graves, tennis star Anna Kournikova would be the new bullpen coach. "Anna is by far the best choice," said Graves. Pitt also praised Kournikova "Every guy in the bullpen will be ready to go now" enthused Pitt.

Pitt also mentioned that former flame/Thelma & Louise star Geena Davis would be the team's new bench coach. "Everyone saw what people and managerial skills she had in A League of Their Own. She took over the team when Hanks was bombed, and make the incredibly key move of having Madonna lead off and play centerfield" Pitt proclaimed.

In addition, Pitt's wife, Friends star Jennifer Aniston, has already worked at assembling the medical staff for next season. "I have already secured one of the world's top doctors" Aniston happily said, pointing towards pal George Clooney, "George has tremendous TV-doctor experience". Clooney concurred, saying "How many lives have I saved on ER? A hammy strain now and then is nothing compared to gunshot wounds and euthanasia". Aniston said that she has already made an in-house decision for team trainer: Playboy cover girl Laura Cover, wife of Reds' play representative Aaron Boone. Unfortunately, club officials say, Cover's presence in the training room has already caused a few chemistry problems in the clubhouse. "All of a sudden everyone has a groin injury" one club official smirked, "Aaron threw a fit when Adam Dunn went in there and flat out demanded a full physical". The chemistry problems have led to Cover's dismissal as head trainer.

In addition to the coaching improvements made for next year, the team will also be dressing and travelling in style. Each team member will now wear a custom made uniform designed by J-Lo, complete with a bere instead of a cap. "I don't think I've ever looked better", said happy first baseman Sean Casey, who appeared to be wearing eyeshadow. The team will also be wearing some of J-Lo's special cologne. After the team's debut against the Mets with the new cologne, Mets superstar Mike Piazza demanded a trade to the Reds, citing Hewitt's incredible managerial skill as the reason behind his decision.

GAC · 09-07-2002, 01:25 PM

Good players and quality talent make for excellent managers! I look down your list above of great managers Randy and I also see teams that have high payrolls and have acquired the talent to put out on that field. That makes it alot easier.

Like I stated before.... any of those guys would be booed, have one heck of a rough time, and maybe fired, if they managed a team like the Reds, KC, or any of the other small to mid market teams.

09-06-2002, 07:51 PM	#91
RedDog Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Posts: 179	Nerves I support Bob Boone and with the pitching that he has and oft-injured players, I think he has done a commendable job. McKeon is not in the picture but like Boone, a certain-player type of manager. Lets see: What makes a great manager: Pitching and timely hitting Torre: horrible manager before he took over Yankees. Great team, good pitching and he compliments it well. Pinella: Has he ever won a WS? Won with less talent? Baker: I think may be the best and with better pitching would win a WS. Never won a WS Howe: Was on the chopping block last year until the pitching turned around. Great? Was horrible in Houston. Cox: A winner now in Atlanta but look at the pitching. Brenly: WS winner with pitching. Alou: Good Joe Morgan: Please! Heck, the Yankees would win with either Jennifer Love-Hewitt and Halle Berry on the coaching staff! Enough of this subject. Boone bashing and support will go on for another year. . __________________ UNC - God's Country

09-06-2002, 08:13 PM	#93
guernsey Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 11,243	"Pinella: Has he ever won a WS?" In a word, yes. __________________ "People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing

09-06-2002, 10:48 PM	#96
RedsBaron Big Red Machine Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Out Wayne Posts: 22,408	We have certainly covered some diverse topics in this thread. With regard to some prior posts regarding modern players not being well versed in baseball fundamentals, it should be noted that modern players are in much better physical condition than were players several decades ago. Prior to free agency, many players worked at other jobs in the off season to make extra money. For example, after going 23-7 with 265 strikeouts in 1963, Jim Maloney worked as a used car salesman in the off season. If a pitcher went 23-7 with 265 K's today, he would be able to afford to buy several car dealerships. Players are now able to spend much of the off season training and no longer report to spring training woefully out of shape. Players also generally eat better and train better during the season. The improved physical condition of players is probably one reason for the increased offensive production in recent years, and this improved conditioning somewhat offsets any decrease in fundamentals. __________________ "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams." Last edited by RedsBaron; 09-07-2002 at 06:45 AM.

09-06-2002, 11:03 PM	#97
RedsBaron Big Red Machine Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Out Wayne Posts: 22,408	March 1, 2003, Florida: Prior to the Reds first spring training game of the year, manager Jennifer Love Hewitt gave a brief pep talk to the team. Recalling the Reds run in first place last season, Hewitt told the squad "I Know What You Did Last Summer." Hewitt then admitted that injuries, coupled with hitting and pitching problems, had turned the Reds into "Heartbreakers" later that season, but, reurning to her upbeat theme, she predicted success in 2003 since "I Still Know What You Did Last Summer." With regard to the 2003 season, Hewitt said I "Can't Hardly Wait" and predicted increased fan support, particularly among "The Suburbans" and other areas outside Cincinnati. Hewitt announced her starting rotation would be Dessens, Haynes, Dempster, Graves and Estes, calling it her "Party of Five." It'll be the "Time of Your Life." [Thanks to Amazon for help on these titles]. Hewitt commented that she had noticed that some Reds baserunners ignored the third base coach last year. She predicted this would not occur in 2003, as she introduced new coach Jennifer Lopez. However, in the ensuing game, there was an incident in the first inning. With Todd Walker on second and Austin Kearns on first, Adam Dunn hit a long drive in the right-center field gap. Dunn slid into third with a triple, only to discover that Walker and Kearns were also occupying third base. The Reds did rally to win the game, with one Reds player saying that Hewitt and the coaching staff caused the team to rise to the occasion. __________________ "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

09-07-2002, 07:02 AM	#100
RedsBaron Big Red Machine Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Out Wayne Posts: 22,408	Randy: I've been thinking for some time about the question you raised regarding the inability of today's starting pitchers to pitch complete games. I think part of the reason why there are so few complete games is that pitchers simply never throw enough, either as kids learning the game, or later in the minors with the expectations of pitching a complete game being lowered. I also suspect that another factor may be that pitchers need more pitches to complete a major league game today. I believe that strikeouts per innings are at an all time high, and I expect that walks per inning are also at at least 50 year highs. For example, in 1965 when Koufax had 27 complete games, followed by Marichal with 24 and Gibson and Drysdale with 20 each, no national league hitter walked as much as 100 times, with Joe Morgan leading the league with 97, followed by McCovey and Santo with 88. In today's game several players will walk more than 100 times a season; Bonds had, what, 170+ walks last year and may top 200 this year. More strikeouts and more walks per innings mean more pitches per inning. It is obviously easier to pitch a complete game if it takes you 100 pitches than if it takes you 140 pitches. I also suspect that on average today's starting pitchers may be enjoying longer careers as a result of not being overworked. I know there are always exceptions such as Warren Spahn, who I believe lost a 16 inning complete game to Marichal in 1963, 1-0, even though Spahn was 42 years old, but many of the great pitchers of the 1960's were done by the time they reached their early thirties and certainly didn't enjoy the success past age 35 experienced by Clemens, Schilling, Johnson, Maddux, Glavine, etc. __________________ "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

09-06-2002, 07:58 PM	#92
RANDY IN INDY Matt's Dad Join Date: May 2000 Location: Brownsburg, Indiana Posts: 14,540	Er..uh...let's see......Piniella took a Reds team that nobody expected to win to a World Series victory against the mighty and heavily favored Oakland A's and Tony Larussa. that would qualify on both counts, I believe.

09-06-2002, 09:21 PM	#94
RANDY IN INDY Matt's Dad Join Date: May 2000 Location: Brownsburg, Indiana Posts: 14,540	Did he really not know that Piniella won with the Reds in 1990? If he didn't, I don't know why I'm answering his dumb questions.

09-06-2002, 11:14 PM	#98
RANDY IN INDY Matt's Dad Join Date: May 2000 Location: Brownsburg, Indiana Posts: 14,540	RedsBaron, Those are good points that you made about the conditioning of players now, as opposed to a couple of decades ago. I agree with what you say. With that said, why is it that pitchers cannot go nine innings with any regularity any more? They have a hard time going six or seven for the most part. That really baffles me, and I've yet to hear a "convincing" argument as to why that is. There is the argument about the bullpen specialists, but it seems that most teams are "burning up" their bullpens at an alarming rate. Overworked bullpens are the norm these days. Why can't the starters go longer?

09-07-2002, 08:32 AM	#101
RANDY IN INDY Matt's Dad Join Date: May 2000 Location: Brownsburg, Indiana Posts: 14,540	I agree with your assesment, RedsBaron. I think that teams like the Reds should be stressing to their starting pitchers that they want them to start going longer in games. The time to do that is at the minor league level. Stretch them out a little longer. Nobody is saying they have to go nine, but on the other end, four or five innings is ridiculous. The Reds burn up their bullpen early in the season, and it comes back and bites them late, every year. An extra inning or two every game by each starter would take a huge load off the pen. I think the key to it all is throwing strikes early in the count. Reds pitchers seem to have a problem doing that.

09-07-2002, 09:20 AM	#102
creek14 Dunnilicious Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Beavercreek Posts: 11,774	For some odd reason, Steel, I would be willing to bet that Red Dog knows oodles about the game. Mega oodles. __________________ Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

09-07-2002, 09:31 AM	#103
RANDY IN INDY Matt's Dad Join Date: May 2000 Location: Brownsburg, Indiana Posts: 14,540	He must be "playin' possum", creek, or "devils advocate".:evilgrin: That Piniella guy did win in 1990 with lesser talent, but he knew that, I'm sure.

09-07-2002, 01:03 PM	#104
letsgojunior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 4,949	CINCINNATI (AP) - In a shocking transaction, Hollywood supercouple Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston purchased the Reds from former majority owner Carl Lindner. Pitt immediately confirmed that the coaching staff would consist of Jennifer Love Hewitt as manager, Halle Berry as hitting instructor, and Jennifer Lopez (J-Lo) as third base coach. Pitt also confirmed that, due to the persistent requests made by relief pitcher Danny Graves, tennis star Anna Kournikova would be the new bullpen coach. "Anna is by far the best choice," said Graves. Pitt also praised Kournikova "Every guy in the bullpen will be ready to go now" enthused Pitt. Pitt also mentioned that former flame/Thelma & Louise star Geena Davis would be the team's new bench coach. "Everyone saw what people and managerial skills she had in A League of Their Own. She took over the team when Hanks was bombed, and make the incredibly key move of having Madonna lead off and play centerfield" Pitt proclaimed. In addition, Pitt's wife, Friends star Jennifer Aniston, has already worked at assembling the medical staff for next season. "I have already secured one of the world's top doctors" Aniston happily said, pointing towards pal George Clooney, "George has tremendous TV-doctor experience". Clooney concurred, saying "How many lives have I saved on ER? A hammy strain now and then is nothing compared to gunshot wounds and euthanasia". Aniston said that she has already made an in-house decision for team trainer: Playboy cover girl Laura Cover, wife of Reds' play representative Aaron Boone. Unfortunately, club officials say, Cover's presence in the training room has already caused a few chemistry problems in the clubhouse. "All of a sudden everyone has a groin injury" one club official smirked, "Aaron threw a fit when Adam Dunn went in there and flat out demanded a full physical". The chemistry problems have led to Cover's dismissal as head trainer. In addition to the coaching improvements made for next year, the team will also be dressing and travelling in style. Each team member will now wear a custom made uniform designed by J-Lo, complete with a bere instead of a cap. "I don't think I've ever looked better", said happy first baseman Sean Casey, who appeared to be wearing eyeshadow. The team will also be wearing some of J-Lo's special cologne. After the team's debut against the Mets with the new cologne, Mets superstar Mike Piazza demanded a trade to the Reds, citing Hewitt's incredible managerial skill as the reason behind his decision.

09-07-2002, 01:25 PM	#105
GAC What Me Worry? Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Bellefontaine, Ohio Posts: 26,429	Good players and quality talent make for excellent managers! I look down your list above of great managers Randy and I also see teams that have high payrolls and have acquired the talent to put out on that field. That makes it alot easier. Like I stated before.... any of those guys would be booed, have one heck of a rough time, and maybe fired, if they managed a team like the Reds, KC, or any of the other small to mid market teams.

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