Bruce-Stubbs-Heisey

[mth123]

If the Reds can't afford to go get a bonafide middle of the order bat for LF, then they need to bring in a LH Hitter who can platoon with Heisey. It needs to be some one with some pop who can share the 5 hole and not a judy hitter like Dickerson, a mediocrity like Nix or a guy way out of position like Francisco or Alonso would apparantly be.

What the Reds should not do is hand the job to Heisey. Its likely that the Reds will see a fall off from Rolen, Phillips and Hernandez in 2011 with some improvement from Bruce to make up for some of it. They are going to need production from LF to keep a respectable offense and IMO need more certainty than Heisey offers. If he's got the goods many of his advocates believe, then he'll win a job and it won't be a problerm. (And Make no mistake, playing in GABP the offense should be in the top four in the NL to be respectable IMO).

[mth123]

But who is expecting him to be a .988 hitter?

His worst stop was .773 (which is where he's at right now as a Major League hitter). It's very possible he can continue to be a .770-.830 hitter as he matures. With his defense, that's more than adequate yes? I don't know why you're holding him to the .988 standard. That's not what anyone is projecting him to be. I don't think I've seen any illusions to the contrary.

No. I'm not expecting middle of the order production frm Rolen again. The Reds need better than that from LF. .875 plus is needed IMO.

[Brutus]

No. I'm not expecting middle of the order production frm Rolen again. The Reds need better than that from LF. .875 plus is needed IMO.

Why? The overall production from a .775-.800 hitter in left with above-average defense is arguably an upgrade from what they've got now. The Reds shouldn't be looking to offset what production might drop from another position... they need to be looking to get above-average players at every position. I'd rather have a lineup of 9 guys OPS'ing around .775 or above than 2-3 guys around .900 and a lineup of Cardinals' hitters

[HokieRed]

Proposed this trade on another thread; seems relevant here. Volquez and Francisco to the Orioles for Nick Markakis.

[backbencher]

Proposed this trade on another thread; seems relevant here. Volquez and Francisco to the Orioles for Nick Markakis.

Very unlikely that the O's trade Markakis unless he has a complete falling out with Showalter, and even then it may be Showalter who goes. Angelos gives Markakis great deference.

[HokieRed]

Very unlikely that the O's trade Markakis unless he has a complete falling out with Showalter, and even then it may be Showalter who goes. Angelos gives Markakis great deference.

I think this is quite possibly true, but it's a trade I'd propose if I were WJ. I would think a great number of RZers would think the O's would go for it, as they thought Hamilton for Volquez was a good deal for us. If Hamilton for Volquez was good, surely Markakis for him, and Francisco, would look good to the O's.

[mth123]

Why? The overall production from a .775-.800 hitter in left with above-average defense is arguably an upgrade from what they've got now. The Reds shouldn't be looking to offset what production might drop from another position... they need to be looking to get above-average players at every position. I'd rather have a lineup of 9 guys OPS'ing around .775 or above than 2-3 guys around .900 and a lineup of Cardinals' hitters

I get what you're saying, but the Reds with Heisey, Stubbs and the SS look a lot like a line-up full of Cardinals hitters and if they get the drop that is likely at 2B, 3B and C, they may actually have the cards line-up with another guy like them subbing for Holiday.

Need a solid middle of the order and build around it to have a decent offense. Right now 2011 looks like Votto and a lot of questions. They might get one from either Bruce (likely) or Rolen (Not Likely). Phillips could probably be one against LHP. The Reds need another middle of the order guy against RHP and IMO that guy isn't on the roster and LF looks like the only spot to put one. If they could get it from SS or C or if Stubbs took a huge step forward, than what you propose with Heisey and a .800ish OPS would be dandy, but the way this team is put together they need more than that in LF.

[edabbs44]

But who is expecting him to be a .988 hitter?

His worst stop was .773 (which is where he's at right now as a Major League hitter). It's very possible he can continue to be a .770-.830 hitter as he matures. With his defense, that's more than adequate yes? I don't know why you're holding him to the .988 standard. That's not what anyone is projecting him to be. I don't think I've seen any illusions to the contrary.

I was talking about the .988 season b/c it skews his numbers.

Do you believe that college hitters who generally hit in the .770-.830 range in the minors will do that as well in the majors?

Maybe he can progress and hit at that level. But I wouldn't bet on it. It bothers me that he has not hit SP at all this year and it bothers me that his numbers are inflated by a ridiculous line vs the Pirates.

I think he would look very minor leaguish if he were to get significant time in the playoffs against a team like Philly or St Louis.

[Brutus]

I get what you're saying, but the Reds with Heisey, Stubbs and the SS look a lot like a line-up full of Cardinals hitters and if they get the drop that is likely at 2B, 3B and C, they may actually have the cards line-up with another guy like them subbing for Holiday.

Need a solid middle of the order and build around it to have a decent offense. Right now 2011 looks like Votto and a lot of questions. They might get one from either Bruce (likely) or Rolen (Not Likely). Phillips could probably be one against LHP. The Reds need another middle of the order guy against RHP and IMO that guy isn't on the roster and LF looks like the only spot to put one. If they could get it from SS or C or if Stubbs took a huge step forward, than what you propose with Heisey and a .800ish OPS would be dandy, but the way this team is put together they need more than that in LF.

I don't think the offense is going to be a problem. I truly believe Bruce is close to finally putting his talent together in the form of fairly consistent production. Drew Stubbs has a way to go, but I don't anticipate he'll continue to OPS .711 next year.

The Reds can get average offensive production from SS and LF (which is what Heisey and Janish both appear to give) and be above average at both positions because of defense. Janish is actually still hitting above the MLB average for OPS by shortstops this season. That might not continue, but he should be able to stay around average.

[Brutus]

I was talking about the .988 season b/c it skews his numbers.

Do you believe that college hitters who generally hit in the .770-.830 range in the minors will do that as well in the majors?

Maybe he can progress and hit at that level. But I wouldn't bet on it. It bothers me that he has not hit SP at all this year and it bothers me that his numbers are inflated by a ridiculous line vs the Pirates.

I think he would look very minor leaguish if he were to get significant time in the playoffs against a team like Philly or St Louis.

The .988 season only accounted for less than 300 of 1,800 plate appearances. It doesn't skew much of anything.

[RedEye]

Heisey isn't better than Gomes on offense. He is definitely better on D but I also think he has become slightly overrated in that regard on here as well. The more people complain about Gomes, the more Heisey's legend grows (both on O and D).

I think the point is that we don't know what Heisey is on offense yet--but he's certainly no worse than Gomes. We do know, I think, that he's better on defense. So... this guy seems like a cost effective way to plug the LF hole next year to me. I'm not saying he's a world-beater by any means, and I'm not saying he should have an endless leash. But he deserves a shot at least as big as the one Gomes has been given in 2010.

[GOYA]

Outfielders are not the Reds' big concern for 2011. Pitching is. I'd be fine with Heisey-Stubbs-Bruce if Walt added a hammer in the rotation. Or 2 hammers.

[WVRedsFan]

Does anyone else think this should be the starting Reds OF in 2011? If you are following the current Gomes poll, you know my motivations in posting this. I get the sense that starting Bruce and Stubbs is pretty much the team's (and the RZ) consensus for next year. Barring a big free agent signing or a trade, I think Heisey is the best option to be the third amigo. Thoughts?

I haven't read this thread, so maybe I'll repeat some stuff and maybe I'll be a contrarian. Regardless, Stubbs is the future in CF and obviously Bruce is the same thing in right. Left field is something else entirely. Chris Heisey is not the answer in left field., The Reds should sign a free agent or trade for someone to play there. Jonny Gomes is not the answer, as we've seen. Surely Layne Nix is not. All three are 4th outfielders. The Reds need someone who can hit for average with power in right. None of those three apply.

That said, and in my more than humble opinion, let Gomes go, keep Nix and Heisey for bench strength, and find a banger for right.

[Ron Madden]

Need a better bat than Gomes/Heisey to play LF. Heisey, because of defense, is likely a better option than Gomes in 2011 but the Reds need a solution not a stopgap.

That's a fact.

[Ron Madden]

Outfielders are not the Reds' big concern for 2011. Pitching is. I'd be fine with Heisey-Stubbs-Bruce if Walt added a hammer in the rotation. Or 2 hammers.

Pitching should always be the number one concern.