Harden being shopped??

[Johnny Footstool]

Harden isn't going anywhere.

Beane probably called Epstein to chat, and Harden's name came up. Some reporter took that and ran with it.

[Chip R]

Isn't this thread about pitcher Rich Harden?

Yes. Let's try to stay on topic, people. Plenty of other Dunn bashing threads out there to pile...I mean post on.

[Sea Ray]

If I'm Beane, I'd offer Harden and Mark Kotsay to the Reds for Dunn and Belisle.

When has Oakland ever shown the desire to stomach a $13mill/yr ballplayer?

This would be totally out of character for Billy Beane. Look for him to try to get AAA talent, not 6 or 7 yr veterans. Those are the most expensive players in the game.

[pedro]

Casey also hit .300 with runners in scoring position and struck out 34 times -- Dunn 134 times (with his .236 avg).

I am not trashing Dunn but guys with similar HR totals have more RBIs - not to mention a much better RBI to K ratio.

None of which is very meaningful at all.

As for whether I'd trade Dunn for Harden it really depends on Harden's health and when he is going to be a FA (after 2008 I believe). I'm sure the Reds are at the point where they are considering what their options are with Dunn b/c I'm not convinced that they'll want to be paying him 13 million in 2008

[TC81190]

Ummm, anyone who would be so shortsighted as to think the Reds pitching could hold up all year is foolish. Harden, if healthy is a top 5 starter in baseball. Obviously the key is his health.

My question is this: Would you trade Adam Dunn straight up for him?

I would have to consider it, but right now I'm leaning no. Travis Wood? I would send him and anyone not named Bailey, Bruce, Hamilton, or Dunn right now. (Obviously I wouldn't trade Harang or Arroyo either.) Anyone else would be fair game.

I can't believe after Dunn's noted decline and not so hot start this year people are still making statements like this. I'd trade 5 Dunns for Rich Harden.

[dougdirt]

Casey also hit .300 with runners in scoring position and struck out 34 times -- Dunn 134 times (with his .236 avg).

I am not trashing Dunn but guys with similar HR totals have more RBIs - not to mention a much better RBI to K ratio.

And he also led the world in double plays, which ended many innings or potential rallies as he erased base runners. Batting average is a bad stat to look at. Adam Dunn out OPS'd Casey with runners on base.

[dougdirt]

I don't think the A's would want Adam Dunn....at his current salary. He makes a lot of money now, will make even more in the future and the A's tend to stay away from players like that.

[Yachtzee]

I am not trashing Dunn but guys with similar HR totals have more RBIs - not to mention a much better RBI to K ratio.

But isn't that a function of guys not getting on base consistently ahead of Dunn? Statistics have been shown that Dunn performs roughly the same with runners on v. bases empty. If that's true, then maybe Dunn's "low" RBI totals you're looking at are a result of out-making players batting ahead of him.

[Doro]

Dunn is the type of player Beane loves. High OBP and high Slugging%.

[jdoncbus]

Over the past 3 seasons Berkman also hits .315 with RISP (compared to Dunn's .236) with 65 K's.

Ortiz hits .331 with RISP with 88 K's (including 24 HRs).

[BRM]

Dunn is the type of player Beane loves. High OBP and high Slugging%.

And he's also the kind Beane does not love. High $$$.

[TC81190]

But isn't that a function of guys not getting on base consistently ahead of Dunn? Statistics have been shown that Dunn performs roughly the same with runners on v. bases empty. If that's true, then maybe Dunn's "low" RBI totals you're looking at are a result of out-making players batting ahead of him.

That's not a good argument though, and I think this every time somebody says that, it's been shown that when runners DO get on, he does bad, so it's not a result of people not getting on.

And as far as Dunn OPSing over Casey with runners on, so? When there are ducks on the ponds, I want a guy up who gets the job done most frequently.

[Yachtzee]

I don't think the A's would want Adam Dunn....at his current salary. He makes a lot of money now, will make even more in the future and the A's tend to stay away from players like that.

You're most likely right. The A's like to exploit market inefficiencies and right now the market is aware of Dunn's value. Now if Dunn were to make less money on his next contact because everyone gets down on him for the Ks, look for the A's to make a play.

[dougdirt]

Over the past 3 seasons Berkman also hits .315 with RISP (compared to Dunn's .236) with 65 K's.

Ortiz hits .331 with RISP with 88 K's (including 24 HRs).

Please dont bring up strikeouts. I will take a strikeout with a runner on base. At least its not a ground ball.

[M2]

Casey also hit .300 with runners in scoring position and struck out 34 times -- Dunn 134 times (with his .236 avg).

I am not trashing Dunn but guys with similar HR totals have more RBIs - not to mention a much better RBI to K ratio.

Why in the world should anyone care about something as bogus as RBI/K ratio? It's worthless. It would tell you Ken Oberkfell was a better RBI man than Mike Schmidt.

As for Casey, Dunn averages more RBIs per 162 games. Also, Dunn's got a higher SLG w/ RISP (though it's close). Casey's fine in that department, but Dunn's slightly better and SLG, not BA, is what gets you RBIs.