Winter Meetings Thread -- Deals and Rumors

[RedTeamGo!]

Jackson in left BHam in CF if he is ready. That would be a killer duo at the top of the lineup in my opinion. The Tigers would not make that trade though.

When they signed Chapman I was expecting one of the most dominant left handed (any handed really) starting pitchers in MLB. Instead he pitches 70 innings a year. I understand Chapman has one of the highest k/9 in the history of baseball, but the fact he is not a starter makes me view him and the reds development of him as a massive disappointment.

[RedTeamGo!]

So let's see. Nathan hasn't started an mlb game in thirteen years. He has been a closer for nine years.

Tigers could have gone for some medium starter and converted him. Or gone to the scrap heap.

No, they went for an all star closer and at age 39 still think his closing ability and experience is good enough for $20 million over two years. They are paying him more than double what Chapman is projected to earn next year.

Sounds like they value experienced, able closers, those Tigers.

The difference between the Tigers and Reds is about $50 million and a billionaire owner who is desperately trying to win a world series before he kicks the bucket.

Oh, you mean like the 2013 Boston Red Sox? Signed Koji Uehara to a 1 year deal, went into the season as the 3rd option for closer - after injuries to Bailey and Hannrahan went on to be dominant to lead them to a WS. Interesting, I thought you needed a big named closer in order to succeed in MLB.

[wheels]

Jackson in left BHam in CF if he is ready. That would be a killer duo at the top of the lineup in my opinion. The Tigers would not make that trade though.

When they signed Chapman I was expecting one of the most dominant left handed (any handed really) starting pitchers in MLB. Instead he pitches 70 innings a year. I understand Chapman has one of the highest k/9 in the history of baseball, but the fact he is not a starter makes me view him and the reds development of him as a massive disappointment.

Sometimes the problem has more to do with our expectations than with the player himself.

It's hard to do sometimes with the hype machine of the media and Internet types, but I've grown to accept that, for want of a better term, curbing my enthusiasm is a decent idea.

I would rather like the players that play for my favorite team instead of being angry that he didn't live up to the bar set for them by the pundits.

[Kc61]

The difference between the Tigers and Reds is about $50 million and a billionaire owner who is desperately trying to win a world series before he kicks the bucket.

Oh, you mean like the 2013 Boston Red Sox? Signed Koji Uehara to a 1 year deal, went into the season as the 3rd option for closer - after injuries to Bailey and Hannrahan went on to be dominant to lead them to a WS. Interesting, I thought you needed a big named closer in order to succeed in MLB.

Good debater's point. As the Tigers argument slips away, move into the Red Sox. Clever.

The Tigers want to win the world series. So do the Reds.

The Tigers have a very wealthy owner. The Reds' owner may be less wealthy and is paying half as much (less, actually) for Chapman than the Tigers are paying Nathan.

The Tigers are simply a team that values closers and were willing to pay substantially to have a dedicated, experienced one. The Reds are paying less than half as much for a guy in his prime; Nathan is 39.

The Tigers are proof positive, along with other teams, that paying for a closer, using an experienced, successful closer, is a perfectly sound way to approach a season.

The Reds seem to feel the same way.

[Kc61]

I note there is another thread, but Halladay is retiring as a Blue Jay today, an early Winter Meetings event.

When the Jays announced the news conference, I wondered if it was a Phillips trade to the Jays. Reds and Jays have been rumored to match up well.

Arroyo rumored to be meeting with Pirates and Twins.

[wheels]

I'm a bit concerned that Walt might come away from the meetings with Mark Trumbo or Mike Morse.

Those guys are pyrite. Please, Walt. Stay away from them.

[TOBTTReds]

Man, it's amazing to me how much people have soured on Chapman just because they want him to start.

I just think there is an opportunity to get much more value in return than his actual worth. Perceptual value of him is higher than his actual value IMO. Seems like a guy the Mariners would love

[757690]

I just think there is an opportunity to get much more value in return than his actual worth. Perceptual value of him is higher than his actual value IMO. Seems like a guy the Mariners would love

He's a two time All-Star that throws harder than anyone in the history of the game, and who puts fans in the seat. Unlike many message board posters, GM's don't only look up a players WAR on fangraphs.com when figuring out a player's worth.

[Ohayou]

Man, it's amazing to me how much people have soured on Chapman just because they want him to start.

A lot of Braves fans feel the same way about Kimbrel. He's probably gonna break arbitration records and the Braves can't afford to be paying a reliever $10M+ a year.

If the Reds can get a blue-chip prospect, I say go for it.

[CySeymour]

He's a two time All-Star that throws harder than anyone in the history of the game, and who puts fans in the seat. Unlike many message board posters, GM's don't only look up a players WAR on fangraphs.com when figuring out a player's worth.

Not specifically, but most GM's would include in a trade trade a 70 inning relief pitcher for a impact everyday bat if the deal was available.

[HokieRed]

I find Jackson's .759 lifetime less than compelling for a LFer; for a Cfer, different story.

[Benihana]

Phillies actively shopping Dominic Brown.

I'd check in on him.

Yeah he's mediocre defensively and bats lefty, but he put up very good numbers this year and is under cheap control for years.

I wonder what he would cost? Leake straight up?

[11larkin11]

He's a two time All-Star that throws harder than anyone in the history of the game, and who puts fans in the seat. Unlike many message board posters, GM's don't only look up a players WAR on fangraphs.com when figuring out a player's worth.

Here's my question: Does Chapman really put butts in the seats? He pitches something like one every three games and has gone stretches of a week and a half without pitching. Now, being scheduled every fifth day, that's a different story. Or having a hitter who minus the occasional off day you will always see in the lineup. Hamilton will put butts in the seats when he becomes a starter. Chapman? Probably not, outside of his debut.

[757690]

Not specifically, but most GM's would include in a trade trade a 70 inning relief pitcher for a impact everyday bat if the deal was available.

My point is that Chapman is much more than just a 70 IP reliever and every GM understands that.

[RedTeamGo!]

Here's my question: Does Chapman really put butts in the seats? He pitches something like one every three games and has gone stretches of a week and a half without pitching. Now, being scheduled every fifth day, that's a different story. Or having a hitter who minus the occasional off day you will always see in the lineup. Hamilton will put butts in the seats when he becomes a starter. Chapman? Probably not, outside of his debut.

I agree with this. "Putting butts in the seats" is a completely unquantifiable claim old schoolers put forth. Ken Griffey Jr put butts in the seat too, he also hamstringed the organization for a decade.