Kyle Lohse > Bryan Bullington/John Van Benschoten/Phil Dumatrait/etc etcOriginally Posted by *BaseClogger*
And he's now cheap enough that he'll earn less that Matt Morris (the Pirates stud 4th starter) will, and probably make you want to vomit less while watching him.
And my argument is that the Pirates are better off holding open tryouts in the #5 spot than signing Kyle Lohse. Of course, I'm also assuming the Pirates have/can find a few high-ceiling pitchers to throw out there. Those FA's you are talking about will want to join the team if it is better, and holding open tryouts would be the best way to improve...
Since this thread is about each of us getting to play the GM, my plan would be to NOT sign Lohse while also NOT putting any of the starters you mentioned out on a major league mound. I would move Morris too, but every sane person would do that...
As for the vomiting, I can deal with it for a season or two if it will bring me a good team down the line...
And where/how are they going to get these "high ceiling" pitchers if they aren't already in the Pirates system?
And isn't rushing pitchers that are not ready the best way to ensure that they never succeed?
If I was a Pittsburgh fan and the GM did what you're suggesting I'd be livid.
School's out. What did you expect?
By trading the Matt Morrises and Jack Wilsons of their roster. These don't have to be Top 100 prospects they receive, just anybody that has a ceiling and can gain something by getting major league playing time...
It sounds like you would rather win 75 games instead of 65 in 2008 and 2009 as if it makes a difference. I don't see how doing that increases the Pirates chances of winning in 2010 and beyond. Play the youngsters...
The point is that pitchers generally don't respond well by throwing them to the wolves at the major league level. Even if they could get some high ceiling guys for Morris and Wilson they probably won't be major league ready and if they're not, then they'll either be washouts completely or by the time they are ready to contribute they'll already be too expensive for the Pirates.
I know nobody on RZ wants to admit it but major league veteran pitchers like Lohse have value, even if your team isn't ready to compete.
Throwing poop against the wall and hoping it turns into chocolate just isn't a plan IMO.
School's out. What did you expect?
The Pirates have little in the way of tradeable commodities, though they do have some interesting commodities. I'd probably try the following:
Prospecting for Gold (and Black)
1) Deal one of the two offensive catchers they have. Both Paulino and Doumit are solid offensively, and Paulino has his days defensively as well. Doumit is similiar to an early LAD Piazza, not the statue he became as a Marlin and Met. Paulino is much better behind the plate and has some pop. I'd deal Paulino and hope Doumit establishes himself as an offensive force at C. It's certainly possible.
2) Deal SS Jack Wilson. Wilson has a reputation for defensive excellence and hit well in 07. He should have some value, but his contract might mitigate some of that. Prospect Brian Bixler looks to be a solid everyday player, with some limited offensive OBP value. He'd be a fine lower order hitter.
Sign 'Em Up
1) The Pirates need some serious buzz, as the fan base is less than thrilled at the futility of the past fifteen years or so. So, why not sign Barry Bonds? Plug him in LF, slide Jason Bay to RF, while McLouth, Morgan, and Duffy fight over CF. Bonds instantly makes the lineup more solid, and, with Xavier Nady as a fourth OF, when he gets hurt, the lose a lot, but not as much as you'd think.
2) Pittsburgh's starting rotation isn't that bad, as Matt Morris is a solid #3 behind Ian Snell and Tom Gorzellany. That said, neither Paul Maholm nor Zach Duke set the world on fire last season, so another free agent might make sense. Why not Jeff Weaver? He'd be cheap, he's an innings eater, and the switch to the National League might appeal to the former Cardinal. If not, Kyle Lohse is still available, as is Josh Fogg. Any of them might appeal as a fourth or fifth starter.
Wither Duke or Maholm? I'd make Duke a reliever. Try him as a set-up guy this year, with an eye toward closing in the secong part of the season. (I'd deal Matt Capps at the Trading Deadline for a king's ransom.) Maholm, as a LHP, is alright learning on the job as either the fourth or fifth starter.
Now Batting...
Nate McLouth CF
Had a quiet 800 OPS last season and plays a solid center field. He'll have to, between Bonds and Bay.
Freddie Sanchez 2B
A rare find, after the Pirates sent him all over the IF for two years. He hits well and showed some surprising pop in 07.
Jason Bay RF
He'll hit better than he did last season, especially in front of Barry.
Barry Bonds LF
The Prodigal Son returneth. Pirates fan rejoiceth. Until the jury comes back.
Ryan Doumit C
LaRoche could hit here, but Doumit's a switch hitter, so that makes him the better choice. Could become the big sleeper of 08.
Adam LaRoche 1B
Overcame slow start to hit okay in 08. Good with the leather.
Neil Walker 3B
Questionable prospect could hit well and could fall flat on his face. Bautista is there if he fails.
Brian Bixler SS
Prospect with decent OBP skills. He's cheap and capable.
now Pitching...
Ian Snell
The closest thing the Pirates have had to an ace since Doug Drabek?
Tom Gorzallenny
Really good, really underrated season in 07. Could blossom into Aaron Harang-style ace this season.
Matt Morris
Expensive, not worth the contract, but a good, dependable #3 starter, which is more than most can say in this division.
Jeff Weaver/ Kyle Lohse/ Josh Fogg
Free agent acquisition allows Duke to play set-up man and provides needed depth, as none of the draft picks have shown a propensity for adequacy.
Paul Maholm/ Zach Duke
Either/ or fifth starter. I'm going with the southpaw witht he added innings pitched. He's able to throw a ton of innings, but probably won't be much more than a league average hurler at best.
Last edited by Scrap Irony; 02-18-2008 at 10:09 PM. Reason: fixed silly LH fifth starter question
Both Duke and Maholm are LH... and I don't see Duke being much out of the bullpen. Also, if you are willing to use Xavier Nady as a fourth outfielder, you might as well trade him and try to get some youngsters in return...
On the whole, your plan sounds pretty good Scrap Iron
I meant to add "with the added innings pitched" after southpaw, but got in too big a hurry. (Now fixed in original post)I think Duke would be an excellent LOOGY at worst and a possible closer at best. As a starter, eh...
I keep Nady because he's got some pop, he's not too old, and both Bonds and Bay have injury histories. Too, he can play 1B. Add all that and he's still looking at 450-500 AB in a season, if managed properly.
Here's what Neil Huntington has done, in his own words:
Dear Pirates fans,
As Spring Training gets under way, I wanted to take a moment to personally thank you for your support, as well as update you on the progress we have made in implementing our vision of building a sustainable championship-caliber organization.
While some have questioned the level of our player personnel activity this offseason, I want to assure you that we have hit the ground running and have worked very hard to restore the pride and passion of the Pittsburgh Pirates. Indeed, the Pirates are a fundamentally different organization today than at this time last year. Beginning with Bob Nutting assuming control of the ballclub a little more than a year ago, this organization has taken orderly steps to improve our internal operations and build a ballclub of which you can justifiably be proud.
Shortly after my appointment as general manager, I worked with president Frank Coonelly on an in-depth assessment of our baseball-operations department. We decided to change the leadership of each of the three major areas -- Major League manager/coaching staff, scouting and player development. We then worked extremely hard to identify and hire the talented baseball men who now form a strong, cohesive leadership team.
The key difference in this leadership team, and what will make us successful, is the how. As an organization, we are taking a process-oriented, systematic approach to everything we do at every level of our operation.
We have completely revised our system for evaluating players and are now using the same system to evaluate talent at every level of baseball, including the amateurs we scout and the Minor League and Major League players in our system as well as other organizations. We have added to the number and quality of our amateur scouts to allow them to focus more intensely on a smaller geographic area and to permit the organization to get multiple looks at a large majority of the amateur players we scout while enhancing the professional growth of each of our evaluators. We are also increasing our level of international scouting and development, including the significant financial investment we are making in the new Pirates training complex we are building in the Dominican Republic.
We are also implementing an individualized written development plan for each player throughout our system. To execute these development plans, we have retained and hired some of the top talent in baseball. These talented instructors will work throughout our system teaching our young players how to play "Pirates Baseball" from the entry level through the Major Leagues.
On the Major League side, we simply cannot and will not repeat the same mistakes this organization has made in the past by making trades and/or free-agent signings simply for the sake of making moves. We chose not to trade players at their lowest value or to trade away our talented, young players just for the sake of making changes.
We are also not going to overspend on a marginal free agent just to secure a favorable story in January. Unfortunately, this organization has proven many times in the past that the short-term bump in excitement over an expensive free-agent signing is far outweighed by the long-term negative impact on the club's ability to allocate these resources to build a strong and deep core. Everything we do will be well thought out, rational and for the benefit of improving the club's on-field performance. We have the necessary resources to make sound baseball decisions as we build this Major League team for the present and future.
I am eager to see how our young players will respond to the leadership and direction of our new manager John Russell and his staff. John has instilled a sense of discipline and accountability in the clubhouse. He will foster an open line of communication so our players know exactly what is expected of them both on and off the field.
Our optimism about the 2008 club begins with our young starting rotation, which some believe could be the deepest starting rotation in our division. Ian Snell had a second consecutive strong season in 2007, and is poised to become a consistent winner in '08. Tom Gorzelanny emerged as one of the top young starters in the National League in 2007, and is poised for a quality 2008. Paul Maholm has demonstrated his toughness and durability; we think that he can become a more consistent winner as he enters his third full season. The veteran presence of Matt Morris for the entire year should be a stabilizing force for the entire rotation. Zach Duke has worked hard this offseason, and we feel he is on the verge of re-establishing himself as a solid Major League pitcher.
Concern has been raised about the depth of our bullpen, but we are fortunate to have a bullpen anchored by one of the best young closers in the game in Matt Capps and left-handed setup men Damaso Marte and John Grabow. We declined this offseason to allocate valuable resources to multiyear contracts for free-agent middle relievers. Clubs that have built bullpens with such signings have been almost universally disappointed with the results and were hamstrung by unproductive long-term commitments. Instead, we are building our bullpen through a variety of options that will give John a number of different looks, power levels and experience that will allow him to match our pitchers' strengths to a lineup's weakness.
Around the diamond we should be strong up the middle with Jack Wilson, Freddy Sanchez and Nate McLouth or Nyjer Morgan. On the corners, we are looking forward to healthy and productive seasons from Jason Bay and Xavier Nady and continued development from Adam LaRoche and Jose Bautista. Our bench will be anchored by versatile veteran Chris Gomez, and we will have solid, versatile Major League-caliber options for our manager to use as he deems necessary. Additionally we look forward to the continued development of exciting young players like Steve Pearce, Andrew McCutchen, Neil Walker, Brian Bixler and others.
This community was excited about this team last year, and we believe that this club will be better than it performed in 2007. Our focus is putting a club on the field that will respect the game, play the right way and give itself a chance to win each night.
In closing, I want to personally thank you for your continued support of the Pittsburgh Pirates. Your loyalty and support is very much appreciated. I look forward to seeing you at PNC Park for what I believe will be an exciting 2008 season.
Sincerely,
Neal Huntington
Senior Vice President, General Manager
Pittsburgh Pirates
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
I believe this is what many RedsZoner's wish Krivsky did with the public-not saying it's good or bad...
This is exactly what I'd like to see/hear from Krivsky. I can understand him not wanting to share the tactics, but I'd love to have an explanation of the strategy and the steps made towards its implementation.
That said, we're far enough down the road at this point that his plan is become increasingly evident through his actions.
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
You'll just have to wait for Michael Lewis to write a book to give you the behind-the-scenes look at the Wayne Krivsky front office!
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