Sign me up with Rick and GAC. I am not at all in favor of tying up a good % of total payroll at 1st base... esp. later in the player's career when the gaudy numbers will be declining.
Sign me up with Rick and GAC. I am not at all in favor of tying up a good % of total payroll at 1st base... esp. later in the player's career when the gaudy numbers will be declining.
That's territory a lot of teams haven't ventured into.Originally Posted by jojo
I think I lean more this way as well. Same with Phillips. The Reds aren't a team that can afford to pay top dollar for a players decline years.Yes it will hurt; but IMO it's not the end of the world, if Votto moves elsewhere. We shall overcome.
...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.
He's not coming back to Cincinnati when his contract is up. Please, dig up this thread when free agency hits in two seasons and remember the guessing game that was saved. Per someone I know with the organization he has no interest in returning to Cincinnati "even if they had the amount to pay him" is what I was told. I won't get into anymore details than that, and as a long-time poster on this site I would hope that I would at least be trusted that I am not just blowing smoke to blow smoke (I would love if he signed a lifetime deal to play 1b in Cincinnati).
This person I spoke to is a family member of a minority owner with the club. Just passing along--feel free to flame away. Just thought I would share with the group.
2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9 2015 Attendance Record: 2-0
2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1
I'm opposed to losing Votto at all for any reason and definitely not willing to deal him unless he comes right out and says he wants to go. This will be the straw that broke the camels back for me if they show even the slightest appearance of not being 100% committed to keeping him. If he walks it's on him and not the organization. So we get 2 picks that have a little shot of ever being worth it as opposed to a package of 3 or 4 that have a bit more chance, what's the odds either way works out. I'll take that chance if it means giving off the proper appearance. Should the Cards have dealt Pujols, imagine that backlash against their FO as opposed to the backlash against Pujols.
Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 03-20-2012 at 09:36 AM.
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."
--Woody Hayes
This is all hypothetical but if the Reds knew for certain he wasn't going to sign with them and Toronto would empty their farm to trade for him, I think the Reds would have to trade him.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
I think those rumors of Votto for Bautista last season were true, I think it was being discussed but fell apart late.
2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9 2015 Attendance Record: 2-0
2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1
It's interesting that Votto will hit the market after his age 29 season -- right between Fielder (age 27) and Pujols (age 31). Fielder got 9 years, but that's in large part to his being relatively young. His deal takes him through his age 36 season. By contrast, Pujols got 10 years that takes him through age 41.
That's a big 5 year gap in terms of what happens to production and it's precisely those years that will be the crux of the debate for Votto. Assuming he continues to produce for the next 2 yeras, I don't think anybody would have a problem paying him $20MM+ from age 30 to 35. It's 36 onward that's the question.
If Votto wants his age 36-?? years covered in his next contract, I can't see that happening in Cincinnati.
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
Not necessarily. Two years of Votto can be worth far more than five years of a group of prospects, especially if the Reds make the playoff both of those years.
Do you regret the M's not trading A-Rod? They were good when he was there, and good after he left, and all they got were draft picks for him.
Also, if the Reds were sure he would leave, wouldn't the Jays as well, which would mean there's no need for them to offer their top prospects.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
I think the assumption would be that Toronto is his desired location.
The Reds really seem to be leveraging Votto's final two years of control with their off season moves. If this season starts poorly and Toronto comes at them with a ton of major league ready or near ready talent, the Reds would almost have to pounce rather than hold on to Votto and hope 2013 would be a playoff year-potentially revamping for another 5 years with a cache of young talent to go with the young core already on the roster or bank it all on 2013?
Concerning AROD, the Ms were trying in earnest to resign him. That's a different situation than knowing they wouldn't be able to sign him regardless.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
I think this organization is 100% committed to wanting to keep Votto (for whatever that's worth). But how far do you take (or define) that 100% commitment? There are two variables that are out of their control for the most part: 1) IF the guy is not committed to the organization (wants to play elsewhere), and/or 2) His salary (contract) demand - which again, he has every right to pursue - is not only something this organization cannot afford, due to payroll limitations, but greatly hinders them in various other areas.
So what happens, hypothetically, if we were able to retain a Votto with a contract somewhere in the range of Pujols/Fielder; but that in turn causes (forces) this organization to cut costs elsewhere (pull back) and lose various other important players to this team, or prevents them from spending the monies to acquire (fill) needs, and all for the sake of ONE player?
A Votto or Pujols or Fielder are not the first, nor the last, player to price themselves out of a market like Cincinnati, or Milwaukee, or even a St Louis for that matter. IMO, that's one of the problems with baseball. The overall market may set (dictate) salaries/contracts, but a vast majority of organizations anymore, and from a payroll standpoint, can't participate in that bidding war.
"In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)
is this the same guy that told you that Joey likes fancy clothes and fancy coffee?
He clearly wants at least 36 & 37 covered. If the Reds know they are not going more than 5 or 6 years, then they have to assume Votto will leave. The only Variable, is how well he hits the next 2 years.
If Votto puts up 2010 like numbers, I would not be worried about the Reds giving him an 8 or even 9 year deal. I would expect more production from 36-38 Votto than 34-36 Fielder or 39-41 Pujols.
Haha, it is not. Though he did offer another nugget that I will include.
When I asked why it was so confirmed in the organization's mind that Votto's gone, he said that his family member who is a minority owner said the following:
"Cincinnati is too conservative of a town for Joey Votto."
Not sure why he said it or what it really means. Take it FWIW.
2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9 2015 Attendance Record: 2-0
2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1
Sounds like you want to make him out to be one of them their......Liberal Democratics?
Cincy could be considered too conservative for some middle of the road conservatives.....so I really don't know what that guy is trying to say.
I guess Latos will not be here after his 4 years either then? He does not look too conservative.
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