A Little More From Joey V

[bmwreds31]

Great game by joey. Again i liked to see him pulling the ball at least.

However to play devils advocate and rally some of you guys up.

His triple came with two strikes on him. Choked up and only had the power to make it off the wall.

Just saying.

[RFS62]

And this relates to Votto how? Are you implying that he lacks that mental edge?

This year is a departure from the norm for Votto. His career numbers are better with runners in scoring position than with no runners on. Are you claiming that he has lost his mental edge? Again I ask isn't it more likely a random fluctuation or possibly an indication that pitchers are less willing to give Votto anything good to hit in those situations than a sudden loss in 'clutchiness'.

Good Lord!

How on earth can you get that from what I said? I'm not talking specifically about Votto. I'm talking about every single player who has ever played the game and the wide variance in their mental approach.

I think he has a stronger mental game and discipline than almost everyone in baseball, in fact. I think he is taking EXACTLY the mental approach in which he believes.

I'm tossing out there for discussion a different aspect of ALL players mental games and how it relates to performance.

And I'm putting it out there for consideration that it may be possible for a players individual approach to not fit the expectations of the manager to fill the role he expects.

[Ironman92]

Joey knows exactly what his job is. And he does it better than 99.997% of all major leaguers.

at bat

[bmwreds31]

Good Lord!

How on earth can you get that from what I said? I'm not talking specifically about Votto. I'm talking about every single player who has ever played the game and the wide variance in their mental approach.

I think he has a stronger mental game and discipline than almost everyone in baseball, in fact. I think he is taking EXACTLY the mental approach in which he believes.

I'm tossing out there for discussion a different aspect of ALL players mental games and how it relates to performance.

And I'm putting it out there for consideration that it may be possible for a players individual approach to not fit the expectations of the manager to fill the role he expects.

In a nut shell. He's saying Votto is going up to the plate looking to drive a the ball in which ever direction he is given. Just not drive the ball out of the ball park. Per say. If that happens it happens. Part of his approach as well. Is he is only going to drive the pitch that he wants. So if he dont get it. He will either foul it off or take a walk. And with two strikes he changes to purely put the bat on the ball as long as it is a strike. But still very picky. I think votto is good at and sometimes even knows How to foul a ball off he doesnt want to hit. He has amazing bat control.

But again. RFs6 is simply saying is that approach what the team needs in the 3 hole.

[puca]

Good Lord!

How on earth can you get that from what I said? I'm not talking specifically about Votto. I'm talking about every single player who has ever played the game and the wide variance in their mental approach.

I think he has a stronger mental game and discipline than almost everyone in baseball, in fact. I think he is taking EXACTLY the mental approach in which he believes.

I'm tossing out there for discussion a different aspect of ALL players mental games and how it relates to performance.

And I'm putting it out there for consideration that it may be possible for a players individual approach to not fit the expectations of the manager to fill the role he expects.

Sorry for not realizing that in a thread specifically discussing Joey Votto and the criticism he is receiving for not driving in runners (or not being 'clutch'), that your point about 'clutchiness' being related to a strong mental approach had nothing to do with Votto.

[kaldaniels]

Sorry for not realizing that in a thread specifically discussing Joey Votto and the criticism he is receiving for not driving in runners (or not being 'clutch'), that your point about 'clutchiness' being related to a strong mental approach had nothing to do with Votto.

Hey now, he was just "tossing it out there". That makes it kosher.

[Raisor]

How on earth can you get that from what I said? I'm not talking specifically about Votto. I'm talking about every single player who has ever played the game and the wide variance in their mental approach.

.

Bro,

Thanks for the clarification, as I wasn't sure how it related to Joey myself.

[RedsManRick]

Funny, I never thought of Ted Williams as a new age ballplayer. I always just thought of him as a cerebral one.

Ask Ted Williams' contemporaries what they thought about him. Ted Williams was way ahead of his time and got away with his approach in part because he was so amazing at it.

If Votto had 80 RBI right now, nobody would be talking about his approach. He's having a poor year from an RBI conversation standpoint and while it has little bearing on his actual run production value, it drives some of the old school guys crazy that he's not doing "his job".

Lucky for us and for Votto, his employer has no problem whatsoever with his approach and have guaranteed him a health paycheck for the next decade. If that bugs his boss, that's his boss's problem.

[Ironman92]

Ask Ted Williams' contemporaries what they thought about him. Ted Williams was way ahead of his time and got away with his approach in part because he was so amazing at it.

If Votto had 80 RBI right now, nobody would be talking about his approach. He's having a poor year from an RBI conversation standpoint and while it has little bearing on his actual run production value, it drives some of the old school guys crazy that he's not doing "his job".

Lucky for us and for Votto, his employer has no problem whatsoever with his approach and have guaranteed him a health paycheck for the next decade. If that bugs his boss, that's his boss's problem.

Before moving on everyone needs to go check out Ted Williams career stats. Just insane and well beyond Vottoville. Talk about Williams approach but he also drove in 120+ runs 7x and would've been 10 if not for WW2.

Career OB% .482? Lol

If you look at the years before when he missed 3 years during WW2 and then the years after he came back and it's fair to assume had he not missed those 3 years....

2200 runs
2250 RBI
3200 hits
625 doubles
625 hr
2450 BB

[Always Red]

Paul Daugherty weighs in on "worthless RBI" and takes another shot at Votto:

OBVIOUSLY, DDBP won the game last night with a couple worthless RBI. It would be great if we could get some acknowledgment from the StatHeads that RBI remain a relevant measure of a hitter’s effectiveness. That, if we are going to gush eternally over another guy’s glowing ability to reach base, we must also give credit to the man who makes his trip around the diamond worthwhile.

Not sure what the hangup is here. Except, on occasion, the Runs-not-Ribbies Crowd can be averse to allowing viewpoints other than their own enter the discussion. They can be a lot like Soccer People. If you don’t agree with them, it’s not because you have a different take. It is because you are stupid.

I’ve been stupid a lot. Ask Deadspin, (Actually, if Deadspin thought I was anything other than stupid, I’d be worried.) Several years ago, the savants at the late website firejoemorgan.com thought I was stupid because I agreed with DBaker that ADunn might want to make a little more contact. I’m routinely stupid around here for suggesting a No. 3 hitter should have more RBI than J. Votto has. The only people who agree with me are Baker, Jocketty and Brennaman. A MOY, a HOFer and a guy with a couple of championship rings. I’m OK with that.

I like numbers. Numbers add to my understanding and enjoyment of the game. I don’t dislike those who put their trust in numbers that I dont always happen to abide by. The fact they think I’m a clod says more about them than it does about me.

Congrats to Brandon Phillips, who won the game last night, with 2 RBI on one swing. Keep rackin’ up those meaningless numbers, DD. Wins just might foillow.

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/daughert...ow-mean-a-win/

I'm not surprised to hear this from Brennaman or Daugherty, has anyone else here heard Baker or Jocketty saying Votto should be driving in more runs? Because that's what I think the man said here.

[westofyou]

Paul D is a waste of reading time, folks move on past this boor and read Johan Keri at Grantland or Poz at NBC or anyone else with a pulse, Daugherty is not attempting to have a dialog in his attack on others POV he's simply saying he is right based on nothing more than saying that he is right.

Reds fans deserve better than this

[reds44]

The thing about the Votto RBI discussion is, I would understand it if he has been bad with RISP. But he's hitting over .300 with RISP. What is he supposed to do? Hit .500?

[Always Red]

Paul D is a waste of reading time, folks move on past this boor and read Johan Keri at Grantland or Poz at NBC or anyone else with a pulse, Daugherty is not attempting to have a dialog in his attack on others POV he's simply saying he is right based on nothing more than saying that he is right.

Reds fans deserve better than this

Well, the only reason I quoted it today is because he leads one to believe that both Walt Jocketty and Dusty Baker have both let Daugherty know they want more RBI from Votto.

First I've heard that the principals in the FO are not happy with Votto's "production."

[NebraskaRed]

The thing about the Votto RBI discussion is, I would understand it if he has been bad with RISP. But he's hitting over .300 with RISP. What is he supposed to do? Hit .500?

Well, clearly he's supposed to control what other batters do at the plate in advance of him. And also control how fast other batters run, and whether someone is waved around third or held there.

[westofyou]

Well, the only reason I quoted it today is because he leads one to believe that both Walt Jocketty and Dusty Baker have both let Daugherty know they want more RBI from Votto.

First I've heard that the principals in the FO are not happy with Votto's "production."

Oh it should be quoted, and it should be noted that he refers to himself at least 12 times and draws a line in the sand with the YOU and THEM distinction

What a hack