Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

[AtomicDumpling]

Randy, not saying you did. but go through the thread. look at how many times Chapman's been called a headcase or some such. that his off field decisions preclude him from being a successful starter. It's crap. because you could use the same excuses to say he can't be a good closer.

The truth is simple.. Can he pitch effectively as a starter. The Reds believed so last spring. Chapman had stated for 2 seasons he prefers to start, and Dusty ignored that. Now that he has stated a closer's preference, Dusty relishes that opinion.

Seems cut and dried to me. This decision is all Dusty Baker. And it won't surprise me one bit if we see Price exiting soon.

Bolded for truth.

I am sure Bryan Price felt the Chapman decision was a swift kick to the nuts. It has to be a big embarrassment for Price to be associated with such an old-school backward-thinking decision. Price is considered one of the smartest, most forward-thinking pitching coaches in all of baseball. Many people think he is hands-down the best since Dave Duncan retired. Price could very well be humiliated by being over-ruled by Dusty Baker. A chance to develop an arm like Aroldis Chapman's comes around once in a lifetime for a pitching coach and I am sure Price will always be bitter over being denied the opportunity to develop him properly. I would not be at all surprised if Bryan Price decides to leave for a team where he has complete control over the pitching staff. If moving Chapman back to the bullpen ends up costing the Reds the talents of Bryan Price it will go down in history as even a dumber decision than it already is.

[Patrick Bateman]

FYI, Here is how much I care about the shirt stealing incident:

[westofyou]

The evil cabal of Dusty is to blame for all that ails us... of course Chapman said he preferred the BP, he then only pitched 8 innings and then Walt made an announcement that all agreed that the BP was where he'd go this year.

But the Jedi mind tricks of Dusty will surely ruin us all.

Nah... I don't buy it

[dougdirt]

I didn't make any excuses. I said he made a mistake. It has nothing to do with his pitching performance or lack of. Leake's a pretty cool customer on the mound. Doesn't seem to rattle easily. Any immaturity off the field doesn't seem to translate on the field.

No you didn't, but another poster did, the one that I originally quoted. I also never said it had anything at all to do with him on the field. Just that we shouldn't be making excuses for what he did.

[PuffyPig]

FYI, Here is how much I care about the shirt stealing incident:

What does that not surprise me, that you think stealing the odd t-shirt is not a sin......

[jimbo]

Bolded for truth.

I am sure Bryan Price felt the Chapman decision was a swift kick to the nuts. It has to be a big embarrassment for Price to be associated with such an old-school backward-thinking decision. Price is considered one of the smartest, most forward-thinking pitching coaches in all of baseball. Many people think he is hands-down the best since Dave Duncan retired. Price could very well be humiliated by being over-ruled by Dusty Baker. A chance to develop an arm like Aroldis Chapman's comes around once in a lifetime for a pitching coach and I am sure Price will always be bitter over being denied the opportunity to develop him properly. I would not be at all surprised if Bryan Price decides to leave for a team where he has complete control over the pitching staff. If moving Chapman back to the bullpen ends up costing the Reds the talents of Bryan Price it will go down in history as even a dumber decision than it already is.

Wow, what a bunch of baseless assumption. You really think that Price is so embarrassed by what you characterize as an "old-school backward -thinking decision," that he's going to pack his bags and leave a great situation as what he has now? Do you really know for fact that he is against moving Chapman back to closer? I have no inside information as you seem to have, but he has never come across to me as being such an pouty little baby, even if he is against it. Besides, there is NO pitching coach anywhere that is always going to agree with every decision the FO or manager makes. That doesn't mean they are going to run away every time there is a disagreement.

The hyperbole level has reached DEFCON 1 in some of these threads.

[dougdirt]

Wow, what a bunch of baseless assumption. You really think that Price is so embarrassed by what you characterize as an "old-school backward -thinking decision," that he's going to pack his bags and leave a great situation as what he has now? Do you really know for fact that he is against moving Chapman back to closer? I have no inside information as you seem to have, but he has never come across to me as being such an pouty little baby, even if he is against it. Besides, there is NO pitching coach anywhere that is always going to agree with every decision the FO or manager makes. That doesn't mean they are going to run away every time there is a disagreement.

The hyperbole level has reached DEFCON 1 in some of these threads.

To be fair, Bryan Price resigned from the Diamondbacks when Bob Melvin was fired (he came over with Melvin for that job). So I think there could be at least a little something to the "he could pack his bags and take his talents elsewhere" thing, though I certainly don't think he would resign, rather just take a job elsewhere when his current contract is up. Not saying I believe he will, because I have no clue, but that it is possible and we have at least something, albeit small and not entirely the same situation, to base it on.

[AtomicDumpling]

Wow, what a bunch of baseless assumption. You really think that Price is so embarrassed by what you characterize as an "old-school backward -thinking decision," that he's going to pack his bags and leave a great situation as what he has now? Do you really know for fact that he is against moving Chapman back to closer? I have no inside information as you seem to have, but he has never come across to me as being such an pouty little baby, even if he is against it. Besides, there is NO pitching coach anywhere that is always going to agree with every decision the FO or manager makes. That doesn't mean they are going to run away every time there is a disagreement.

The hyperbole level has reached DEFCON 1 in some of these threads.

I don't think your rude attacks are necessary.

Yes I think he is embarrassed. Just check the advanced baseball sites to see how stupid they think the decision was.

If you have a once-in-a-lifetime arm to develop and you are denied the opportunity and over-ruled in a such a high profile manner then yes I can see how a top-notch pitching coach could decide to move on to greener pastures. He has already been with several teams so I think there is plenty of reason to think he won't hesitate to move again. He would be a HUGE loss for the Reds.

[RollyInRaleigh]

I don't think your rude attacks are necessary.

Yes I think he is embarrassed. Just check the advanced baseball sites to see how stupid they think the decision was.

If you have a once-in-a-lifetime arm to develop and you are denied the opportunity then yes I can see how a top-notch pitching coach could decide to move on to greener pastures. He has already been with several teams so I think there is plenty of reason to think he won't hesitate to move again. He would be a HUGE loss for the Reds.

With all due respect, there is nothing concrete to suggest that Price is embarrassed, and to assume that is the case is hyperbole. Price is in a situation where he "just may" be in line to get the manager's job in Cincinnati, sooner than later. Not a bad position to be in.

As far as Chapman is concerned, they made the move they feel is best for the team for the upcoming season. If they would have inserted him into the rotation, they would have felt that was the best move for the team. Either way, I doubt seriously that one individual made the decision.

[TRF]

The evil cabal of Dusty is to blame for all that ails us... of course Chapman said he preferred the BP, he then only pitched 8 innings and then Walt made an announcement that all agreed that the BP was where he'd go this year.

But the Jedi mind tricks of Dusty will surely ruin us all.

Nah... I don't buy it

woy, for two straight seasons Chapman stated he wanted to start. this is the first time he's stated he wants to close. Dusty has never said a positive thing about him wanting to start.

An announcement was leaked, then retracted. prior to that Jocketty said they take player preference into consideration, but that they don't always get what they want.

So, it seems, Jocketty signed him to be a starter. Price was in multiple interviews this past off season talking about how Chapman as a starter was the best thing, seemed very excited about it. Every time it was mentioned to Baker, in interviews or caravans, he seemed rankled by the very question... from all reports.

Maybe these were the droids we were looking for after all.

[jimbo]

To be fair, Bryan Price resigned from the Diamondbacks when Bob Melvin was fired (he came over with Melvin for that job). So I think there could be at least a little something to the "he could pack his bags and take his talents elsewhere" thing, though I certainly don't think he would resign, rather just take a job elsewhere when his current contract is up. Not saying I believe he will, because I have no clue, but that it is possible and we have at least something, albeit small and not entirely the same situation, to base it on.

That's fair enough and I would agree with you to an extent. But, that's a lot different though than claiming he may very well leave because he may have been "humiliated" over a disagreement with a particular pitcher's role on the team. Bryan Price seems to me as being much bigger and better than that and I'm sure he realizes he may not always see eye to eye on everything the FO decides on with player personnel and development. For all we know, he may have supported the decision.

The post I referred to was nothing but a lot of loose assumption.

[TRF]

That's fair enough and I would agree with you to an extent. But, that's a lot different though than claiming he may very well leave because he may have been "humiliated" over a disagreement with a particular pitcher's role on the team. Bryan Price seems to me as being much bigger and better than that and I'm sure he realizes he may not always see eye to eye on everything the FO decides on with player personnel and development. For all we know, he may have supported the decision.

The post I referred to was nothing but a lot of loose assumption.

I didn't say humiliated. I said i believe it could herald his exit. He's the pitching coach, the top authority on pitching in the organization, and he was just overruled regarding the best arm in the organization.

That'd tick me off enough to leave if my contract expired.

[jimbo]

I don't think your rude attacks are necessary.

Yes I think he is embarrassed. Just check the advanced baseball sites to see how stupid they think the decision was.

Rude attacks? Seriously, that wasn't my intent, but I apologize if it came across as that.

And I'm sorry, but I really don't care what any baseball sites say about the decision, they are not inside Price's head and are most likely not privy to the discussions behind closed doors that surrounded it. Jocketty & friends have accomplished enough with this team over the last three seasons that I trust their expertise in the matter, until proven otherwise.

[osuceltic]

Before spring training, when talking about Chapman, Price said last spring (2012) Chapman was showing everything they wanted to see from him as a starting pitcher -- command of multiple pitches to left- and right-handed hitters in different counts. But then they had the injuries and Chapman was moved to the pen. Price said as last season went along, Chapman lost that command and became primarily a fastball pitcher. He said this spring they wanted to see if he could get back to where he was last spring.

Now ... isn't it possible they didn't see that same multi-pitch, multi-count command? Isn't it possible that in his limited spring appearances and all the mound sessions we don't see or see reported on, it started to become apparent that he wasn't ready to start? That he still was that fastball pitcher and he couldn't command those other pitches well enough?

Of course, that is just going to add fuel to the fire to those who think Chapman should have been starting last season, but it's hard to argue the organizational decision when you consider the bullpen injuries at the time.

I wish the guy could start, but it's not as simple as everyone seems to think it is.

[jimbo]

I didn't say humiliated.

I wasn't referring to what you said, but someone else did say exactly that.