Shin-Soo Choo

[frivolousz21]

How is Choo a risk when Votto is getting 25 mil AVV from ages 36-40.

Choo will be 37 the last year of his deal.

If Votto at age 30 has a bad knee and is a 25hr guy what will he be doing in 5 years?

I can't see how Choo is over valued when he is a Star.

[swaisuc]

Amazing that people are still saying we had no money even after we spent the money on a different player.

[RedTeamGo!]

Amazing that people are still saying we had no money even after we spent the money on a different player.

It is not the same money.

$100 million does not = $135 million.

You also have to take into account Choo signed in Texas, a state with no income tax. It has been documented that if Choo had signed in a different city like NY or Cin the contract would have been closer to $150 million.

Last time I checked, a $50 million difference is a pretty big difference.

[JMO]

The Reds are fine without Choo, way to expensive. Hamilton will be a good player. This team lacks a truly elite RH power bat in the middle of the order, a LF who can hit .280- .300 30 HR 100 RBI. Edwin Encarnacion type of player. Reds need that player, a Cespedes type, a Puig type. We have had chances, but failed to sign one. Reds would become a WS championship contender with that lineup.

Hamilton
Phillips
Votto
RH LF
Bruce
Frazier
Mesoraco
Cozart

[Redeyecat]

Of course the Reds woulld have loved to have kept Choo, but there's only so much money to go around especially when you are talking about long-term contracts. It's going to be hard enough to retain pitchers like Latos, Cueto, Leake and Chapman over the next few years as is.

[scotly50]

The Reds are fine without Choo, way to expensive. Hamilton will be a good player. This team lacks a truly elite RH power bat in the middle of the order, a LF who can hit .280- .300 30 HR 100 RBI. Edwin Encarnacion type of player. Reds need that player, a Cespedes type, a Puig type. We have had chances, but failed to sign one. Reds would become a WS championship contender with that lineup.

Hamilton
Phillips
Votto
RH LF
Bruce
Frazier
Mesoraco
Cozart

Its not there either. Phillips bat has slowed. He needs to be batting lower. We also need to dump Bruce for a quality bat for the 2 hole and bullpen help.

[swaisuc]

Of course the Reds woulld have loved to have kept Choo, but there's only so much money to go around especially when you are talking about long-term contracts. It's going to be hard enough to retain pitchers like Latos, Cueto, Leake and Chapman over the next few years as is.

So don't. The bottom line is they prioritized Bailey and potentially another pitcher ahead of Choo. That is why he isn't here. Maybe it was right or maybe it was wrong, but the option of Choo LF Hamilton CF Bruce RF was available to them as far as I can tell. It would have eventually meant Homer walking and MAYBE someone like Leake walking (to the earlier point about homer/choo not being exactly =$).

[bmwreds31]

The Reds are fine without Choo, way to expensive. Hamilton will be a good player. This team lacks a truly elite RH power bat in the middle of the order, a LF who can hit .280- .300 30 HR 100 RBI. Edwin Encarnacion type of player. Reds need that player, a Cespedes type, a Puig type. We have had chances, but failed to sign one. Reds would become a WS championship contender with that lineup.

Hamilton
Phillips
Votto
RH LF
Bruce
Frazier
Mesoraco
Cozart

You are right imo. Im fine with hamilton and losing choo. He has proven to me he has potential long term to be above avg. And game changing speed.

But the reds had the Power bat you speak of. Years ago. His name was Josh Hamilton. Im in the boat of trading cueto. (Even though i love him) For somebody like Troy tulinwinsky. Tulinwinsky would be perfect for us. To finally drop cozart. But somebody big in LF would be right too.

[Larkin88]

You are right imo. Im fine with hamilton and losing choo. He has proven to me he has potential long term to be above avg. And game changing speed.

But the reds had the Power bat you speak of. Years ago. His name was Josh Hamilton. Im in the boat of trading cueto. (Even though i love him) For somebody like Troy tulinwinsky. Tulinwinsky would be perfect for us. To finally drop cozart. But somebody big in LF would be right too.

Cards allegedly offered Shelby Miller, Matt Adams and Kozma (not that he has much value) for Tulowitzki and were turned down. Cueto is easily a better player than any of those three guys, but the value of that package is more than what one year of Cueto would net in my view. Tulo is also due $120 M from 2015-2020, which I don't think the Reds could bite off even though it's a pretty decent contract in terms of market value these days.

In my view, SS and LF are the two biggest areas for improvement. But shortstop is probably the hardest position in baseball to find elite offensive production from, and there are a lot of teams with much better farm systems who would love to have Tulo for that very reason. LF would seem to be the lowest hanging fruit for offensive improvement since it is a less premium position, but yet here we still are. Do agree that Reds didn't have room for Choo and made the right decision there, though.

Also, FWIW, Josh Hamilton is a lefty. Reds need an RH bopper so, I'm also in agreement with JMO.

[Ladeda]

It is not the same money.

$100 million does not = $135 million.

You also have to take into account Choo signed in Texas, a state with no income tax. It has been documented that if Choo had signed in a different city like NY or Cin the contract would have been closer to $150 million.

Last time I checked, a $50 million difference is a pretty big difference.

The Reds have money-- it was just earmarked to a different player. (Homer instead of Choo.) Don't forget--- Cueto, Latos and Leake are all FA after 2015--- the Reds to save money. Spending a ton of money on Choo when Winker will be ready in 2 years is silly. The Reds already have one contract with a terrible backend (Votto's last 4 years when his production surely won't match his salary)-- the Reds didn't need another big Contract in Choo which prevented them from signing who they need to sign, which are their SP's. The Reds aren't the Yanks-- they do have payroll limitations.

[bmwreds31]

Cards allegedly offered Shelby Miller, Matt Adams and Kozma (not that he has much value) for Tulowitzki and were turned down. Cueto is easily a better player than any of those three guys, but the value of that package is more than what one year of Cueto would net in my view. Tulo is also due $120 M from 2015-2020, which I don't think the Reds could bite off even though it's a pretty decent contract in terms of market value these days.

In my view, SS and LF are the two biggest areas for improvement. But shortstop is probably the hardest position in baseball to find elite offensive production from, and there are a lot of teams with much better farm systems who would love to have Tulo for that very reason. LF would seem to be the lowest hanging fruit for offensive improvement since it is a less premium position, but yet here we still are. Do agree that Reds didn't have room for Choo and made the right decision there, though.

Also, FWIW, Josh Hamilton is a lefty. Reds need an RH bopper so, I'm also in agreement with JMO.

Hmm i agree . However to keep convo going. If we didnt trade cueto wouldnt he cost us at least that or more of what we would have to pay tulo. In order to get tulo. If we put out Cueto and Chapman. I would take that and be thrilled. Than just pick up a avg LF. Just about anything is better than ludwick. I like the guy. But his time is obviously up.

And Tulo if you stuck him in this lineup would change everything.

1.Hamilton
2.Votto
3.Tulo
4.Bruce
5.Mesoraco
6.Frazier
7.BP
8.LF'r Heisy/bernidina

I love the look of that. Especially if you picked up a decent LF'r.

[Larkin88]

Hmm i agree . However to keep convo going. If we didnt trade cueto wouldnt he cost us at least that or more of what we would have to pay tulo. In order to get tulo.

Yes, but I personally don't think the Reds have the money to extend Cueto after next season, when his current team-friendly contract expires. So the same financial realities that would keep us from taking a Tulo-like contract on are (at least in my view) the same ones that make the Cueto trade talk particularly timely and relevant to begin with. At least as far of the Tulo conversation is concerned I don't think it's an either/or situation so much as a neither/nor one.

If the Reds trade off a top-of-the-rotation arm, I think it will be to get younger. I definitely don't see a $100+ M contract coming back... If anything, I'd see them trying to throw-in guys like Ludwick, Broxton, etc for salary relief.

Again, all this assumes that the Reds are pretty comfortable out of it by the ASB. Otherwise, it may make sense to roll the dice this and next year with what we have.

[goreds2]

Currently batting .284 with a .414 on base %.

[PuffyPig]

There surely was. The Reds FO decided to give that money to a career .500 pitcher instead.


Besides that I have read on here the Reds received 25 mil in additional yearly revenue starting this year from national tv.

I have also read on here the Reds expect to see their local tv money increase by 40-50 million per year in a couple years.

And of course reds revenue is increasing every year at this point outside of that.


The Reds could have easily signed Choo and Peralta.


Hamilton
Choo
Votto
Bruce
Peralta
Merosco/Pena
Phillips
Fraizer

I don't know what is worse, referring to a pitcher's skill based on his record, or suggesting that Peralta was a good choice to get.

But Bailey is 6-3, so I guess he's pitching great.

[bmwreds31]

Yes, but I personally don't think the Reds have the money to extend Cueto after next season, when his current team-friendly contract expires. So the same financial realities that would keep us from taking a Tulo-like contract on are (at least in my view) the same ones that make the Cueto trade talk particularly timely and relevant to begin with. At least as far of the Tulo conversation is concerned I don't think it's an either/or situation so much as a neither/nor one.

If the Reds trade off a top-of-the-rotation arm, I think it will be to get younger. I definitely don't see a $100+ M contract coming back... If anything, I'd see them trying to throw-in guys like Ludwick, Broxton, etc for salary relief.

Again, all this assumes that the Reds are pretty comfortable out of it by the ASB. Otherwise, it may make sense to roll the dice this and next year with what we have.

I hate to admit it but unfortunately you are probably right. We are now stuck with a aging beat up votto and nothing to build this team around. The years of greatness are passed and were more than likely just going to enter a fire sale era. aka rebuilding for 3-4 years. Hopefully we can at least stay above the pirates during this time.