So... wouldn't this basically be the same teams every year no matter what?
So... wouldn't this basically be the same teams every year no matter what?
My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!
It's a significantly bigger city than Cincinnati, yes, but the MSA is still around 21st in MLB after accounting for two-team markets.
True enough, but why is that? They don't have more people in their surrounding area than other teams typically do in theirs. All those people who could be following the Royals or the Cubs or White Sox or Rangers or Reds or Braves, are following the Cardinals instead. They must be doing something right.As for the fan base outside of the cities, much of the Midwest was Cardinal country for most of the past century. Adding Atlanta, the Texas teams, the Twins cut into that a bit, but go to any small town in the midwest, southwest, and even the south, and you'll find plenty of Cardinal fans.
Truth is, they're doing a better job than most any other team of turning potential fans and potential revenue into actual fans and actual revenue. In the big picture, that is probably better rewarded than punished.
Reading comprehension is not just an ability, it's a choice
Reading comprehension is not just an ability, it's a choice
The reason is simple. There was no MLB baseball west of Saint Louis for decades, and then only the hapless Kansas City A's for around a decade. Combine that with KMOX, which, because of the flatlands of the midwest, can be heard for hundreds of miles, from 1900-1966, you had nearly every southern baseball fan, midwestern baseball fan, southwestern baseball fan, and northwestern baseball fan grow up Cardinal fans.
Now some did peel off and become Twin fans, Braves fans, Royal fans, Astros fans, etc, as baseball expanded, but still, even in those areas, you have families that are Cardinal fans.
The Cardinals right now are not doing anything better to grow their market, they are just capitalizing on their history and logistics.
I will grant you that back then, Branch Rickey built a model organization, which is a big reason why the Cardinal market is so big, but the current Cardinal organization isn't doing anything much better or smarter than other organizations to grow their market.
Let's put it this way. Switch Cast and the current Cardinal ownership, and St. Louis and Cincinnati would be in the exact same situations in terms of their market.
Last edited by 757690; 12-01-2011 at 03:28 PM.
Hoping to change my username to 75769023
Why not have two leagues - a small market league and a big market league?
National (small market) League
EAST
Atlanta
Florida
Tampa
Toronto
Baltimore
CENTRAL
Cincinnati
Milwaukee
Pittsburgh
Detroit
Cleveland
WEST
Colorado
San Diego
Oakland
Kansas City
Minnesota
American (big market) League
EAST
NY Yankees
NY Mets
Boston
Philadelphia
Washington
CENTRAL
Chi White Sox
Chi Cubs
St. Louis
Houston
Texas
WEST
Seattle
LA Angels
LA Dodgers
San Francisco
Arizona
Last edited by Benihana; 12-01-2011 at 03:26 PM.
Go BLUE!!!
Hoping to change my username to 75769023
Just a couple of clarifications on some of your comparison's to Cincinnati. I had to bounce around to gather some of this info, but here goes. According to the 2010 Census, the St. Louis MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) ranks 18th in the county with 2.81M people. Cincinnati's MSA ranks 27th with 2.13M people, or about 680,000 less, so it's not quite a third larger - but that's a quibble. Essentially your statement is correct there.
As for corporate presence, since presently (at least until the end of next year when Chiquita moves), Cincinnati has nine Fortunate 500 companies compared to St. Louis's eight. Of course, we'll be tied after next year. The Fortune 500 companies here are, besides P&G, Kroger, Macys, Ashland, Fifth Third, Omnicare, AK Steel, Western & Southern Financial, Cincinnati Financial and Chiquita. St. Louis does beat us with Fortune 1000 companies with 21 compared to our 15.
As for income, we're roughly the same with the Cincinnati MSA having $51,832 and St. Louis MSA with $51,691.
The point is that, as many have said, the markets are essentially equivalent. The Cardinals have done a terrific job of packing their ballpark for many years now and their fans, frankly, put us to shame for their enthusiasm. The volume at Cardinals game is loud and constant and, at times, spontaneous. We don't know spontaneous unless the scoreboard tells us to do it, sadly.
I think WOY did a decent overview of the differences facing the two cities baseball wise some time ago. St. Louis has few things competing for fans than the Reds do. Plus they retained much of their old market after expansion (which basically was much of the south and way far west of the city). Even with the A's and then the Royals in Kansas City's, many folks in western Missouri and even in Kansas still considered themselves Cards fans. And we all know the wretched turning away of our larger market by Marge Schott during her reign. We're still trying to recover from that. Sadly, it occurred right as the Indians were on their ascendancy and we lost large parts of Ohio to them because of it.
Based on the definition, St. Louis is in that group.
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Yep, plus selfishly, I feel like we SHOULD always be able to contend in a division with Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Detroit.
The beauty of this system is it will really flush out the talent in the front offices, as the cities are competing like-to-like.
And to your point about contending teams in both leagues, it wouldn't necessarily be a one-sided World Series every year.
Last edited by Benihana; 12-01-2011 at 05:00 PM.
Go BLUE!!!
Yeah, in her heyday the Oakland A's had the highest payroll in MLB...so what? Times have changed and it ain't ever goin' back
St Louis is the 21st market in the US while Cincinnati is 33rd. I consider that a significant difference:
http://mediainfosaltlakecity.blogspo...-rankings.html
Oh...Atlanta is 8th. Not exactly a small market team. On top of that...TBS made the whole country Braves fans.
She used to wake me up with coffee ever morning
I really don't like the idea of giving teams extra draft picks, even though it will benefit the Reds. I don't know, to me it cheapens the league, even if the Yankees have a bajillion dollars. I'd rather see a salary cap of $100M, maybe slightly more.
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