I told you guys Owings wasn't worthy of our 5th spot

[GIDP]

If a guy isnt a cy young he doesnt deserve to pitch ever.

having 5 starters being awesome never happens. Micah owings does quite fine as a 5th starter.

[bounty37h]

Who was it that guaranteed earlier in the season he stinks and wont win but 2 games all year, was it the OP?

[Shawn_RedsFan]

You seem to have a disconnect with reality on what a 5th starter is expected to do. Let me ask, what did Bailey and Maloney do on their last starts with the Reds?

Also, why isn't this title about say, Arroyo? He still likely has a higher ERA than Owings even after this start, and is getting paid over $10 mil a year to do it. He seem to have some kind of odd rage against Owings, for whatever reason. Did he run over your dog or something? Sheesh.

Arroyo has pitched pretty darn good...but I guess if we look at ONE of his starts he has been terrible.

Oh and on Homer I forgot that one start is enough to tell you that he isn't ready for big league hitters. If were making assumptions on one start why don't we look at Cueto's last start?? Lets get Cueto out of here I mean if you can't hole a 5 run lead you don't deserve to be in the Majors.



What I am trying to say here is that Owings shows no improvement start after start. If Homer was in Owings spot, yes Homer may get knocked around a few times but im willing to bet he would at least show some improvement start after start.

[mivers176]

I dont have a problem with Owings either...not for a #5 anyway. But I decided to check a few other good options that other teams have as a #5 just for fun.

Houston
Russ Ortiz 3-3 3.47era

Oakland
V.Mazzaro 2-2 2.56era (only 31 ip though)

StLouis
B.Thompson 2-2 3.89

Cubs
Randy Wells 1-2 2.57

TB
J.Niemann 6-4 4.23


so, to compare to the one post about plug in anyone's 5th starter and get the same results, I cant agree. I only checked about 10 teams and these 5 were superior. I'd say Owings is somewhere in the middle, closer to the bottom half than the top actually.

[REDSEER]

Regardless of the way Owings pitched last night, he has consistently kept the team in the game, whereas in years past our 5th starter would lose the game by the 3rd inning. Keep in mind that Owings has pitched in many games where he has been opposed by the other team's #1 or #2, and look at the "Exited" stat on his game log. Besides the game in against the Phillies and last night's start, Micah has consistently kept the Reds in the game.

Rk     Gcar  Gtm  Date  Tm  Opp  Rslt     Inngs    Dec DR  IP H R ER BB SO HR HBP  ERA Exited
1        52    8 Apr15 CIN  MIL  L3-9      GS-6 L(0-1) 99 5.0 5 4  4  2  2  2   0 7.20 tie
2        53   13 Apr21 CIN  CHC  L2-7      GS-5 L(0-2)  5 4.2 5 5  2  4  3  1   0 5.59 d2
3        54   18 Apr26 CIN  ATL  W8-2      GS-7 W(1-2)  4 7.0 6 1  1  3  6  1   0 3.78 a7
4        55   23  May2 CIN  PIT  L6-8      GS-6 L(1-3)  5 5.2 9 5  5  2  0  0   1 4.84 d2
5        56   28  May7 CIN  MIL  W6-5      GS-6 W(2-3)  4 6.0 7 5  4  1  4  0   0 5.08 a1
6        57   33 May12 CIN  ARI  W3-1      GS-8 W(3-3)  4 7.0 4 1  1  2  4  0   1 4.33 a3
7        59   40 May21 CIN  PHI L5-12      GS-3 L(3-5)  4 3.0 6 5  5  3  3  1   0 4.70 d5
8        60   45 May26 CIN  HOU  W6-4      GS-5         4 5.0 6 3  3  4  3  0   0 4.78 tie
9        61   49 May31 CIN  MIL  L2-5      GS-6 L(3-6)  4 5.2 8 5  5  3  5  1   0 5.10 d3
10       62   54  Jun5 CIN  CHC  L1-2      GS-6 L(3-7)  4 6.0 5 2  2  3  6  1   0 4.90 d2
11       63   59 Jun11 CIN  WSN  L2-3      GS-6         5 5.1 4 1  1  4  4  0   2 4.64 a2
12       64   64 Jun17 CIN  ATL  W4-3      GS-6 W(4-7)  5 6.0 6 2  2  2  0  1   0 4.50 a2
13       65   69 Jun23 CIN  TOR  L5-7      GS-6 L(4-8)  5 5.2 9 6  6  2  1  3   0 4.87 d6

He has left with the lead 5 times, left with the team losing 6 times, and left tied twice, which isn't bad for a fifth starter who has faced several TOR starters.

[texasdave]

They ought to call him Micah "Mirrors" Owings, because that's how he is doing it.

[EDDIEGGG27]

If your gonna be bashing sum1 in the rotation so far this year then it should be Arroyo. About the exact same #'s and Arroyo is getting paid 10 mill more than Owings.

----Owings vs Arroyo
IP --- 77.2 ---- 89.0
Hits - 83 ------ 92
Runs 46 ------ 53
HR -- 12 ------ 15
BB -- 38 ------ 32
SO -- 46 ------ 48
ERA - 4.87 ---- 5.16
AVG - .273 ---- .273
WHIP 1.56 ---- 1.39

[Shawn_RedsFan]

If your gonna be bashing sum1 in the rotation so far this year then it should be Arroyo. About the exact same #'s and Arroyo is getting paid 10 mill more than Owings.

----Owings vs Arroyo
IP --- 77.2 ---- 89.0
Hits - 83 ------ 92
Runs 46 ------ 53
HR -- 12 ------ 15
BB -- 38 ------ 32
SO -- 46 ------ 48
ERA - 4.87 ---- 5.16
AVG - .273 ---- .273
WHIP 1.56 ---- 1.39

Look at it start by start please because those numbers are very very deceiving.

[REDSEER]

Arroyo just so happens to be prone to the absolutely horrible start (@TOR last year, MIL this year) where he can't get anybody out. Take those few games out where he can't locate his breaking pitches, and you have a pitcher who consistently gives you quality starts. Micah this year has been average; not bad but not good. Their numbers may be similar, but I'll take Arroyo any day.

[Shawn_RedsFan]

Arroyo just so happens to be prone to the absolutely horrible start (@TOR last year, MIL this year) where he can't get anybody out. Take those few games out where he can't locate his breaking pitches, and you have a pitcher who consistently gives you quality starts. Micah this year has been average; not bad but not good. Their numbers may be similar, but I'll take Arroyo any day.

Exactly what I'm saying Owings hasn't even went into the 7th this year. Arroyo will eat those innings for you and save your bullpen from overuse.

[Ghosts of 1990]

I feel like the same guys who are satisfied with Owings are probably the guys who aren't sick of finishing in 5th place every year. If you're going to make the playoffs, you can't have what Owings gives you as the fifth starter. You gotta strive for better then that, some how some way. I don't know who it is, but as long as Owings is our 5th starter, we just aren't going to be able to contend.

[xavr1]

I dont have a problem with Owings either...not for a #5 anyway. But I decided to check a few other good options that other teams have as a #5 just for fun.

Houston
Russ Ortiz 3-3 3.47era

Oakland
V.Mazzaro 2-2 2.56era (only 31 ip though)

StLouis
B.Thompson 2-2 3.89

Cubs
Randy Wells 1-2 2.57

TB
J.Niemann 6-4 4.23


so, to compare to the one post about plug in anyone's 5th starter and get the same results, I cant agree. I only checked about 10 teams and these 5 were superior. I'd say Owings is somewhere in the middle, closer to the bottom half than the top actually.

Very interesting stats, which tend to speak for themselves. I was hoping for a little (not a lot) more out of Micah this year. The thing that gets me about him, though, isnt his ERA, WHIP, or record (even though those are telling). What drives me crazy is his uncanny ability to throw like 40 pitches an inning and take nearly every batter to a full count.

[LouisvilleCARDS]

I feel like the same guys who are satisfied with Owings are probably the guys who aren't sick of finishing in 5th place every year. If you're going to make the playoffs, you can't have what Owings gives you as the fifth starter. You gotta strive for better then that, some how some way. I don't know who it is, but as long as Owings is our 5th starter, we just aren't going to be able to contend.

No the guys who are satisfied with Owings know he already has more wins at the 5 spot this year as we had ALL OF LAST YEAR at the spot. And also realize that the next start Homer gets, what, his 4th or 5th chance up here now? He hasn't proven anything himself to do any better thus far.

You asked for stats, FlightRick gave you a great breakdown earlier, and you didn't respond. I think most here realize the days when Owings would have been the NUMBER ONE STARTER a few years ago, back when Jimmy Haynes Her Way, and Danny "dig your own" Graves were anchoring the rotation. Complaining about him being the 5th starter is kind of like complaining about the mud on your tires while your car is on fire.

[Lockdwn11]

I feel like the same guys who are satisfied with Owings are probably the guys who aren't sick of finishing in 5th place every year. If you're going to make the playoffs, you can't have what Owings gives you as the fifth starter. You gotta strive for better then that, some how some way. I don't know who it is, but as long as Owings is our 5th starter, we just aren't going to be able to contend.

Funny you should say that because you was one who said he longed for the old days of losing 7 to 6 because this team was boring. Look the numbers don't back up your claims. When people show you those number you choose to ignore them so go ahead and keep whining about Owings, it your repution on this board.

[bounty37h]

I feel like the same guys who are satisfied with Owings are probably the guys who aren't sick of finishing in 5th place every year. If you're going to make the playoffs, you can't have what Owings gives you as the fifth starter. You gotta strive for better then that, some how some way. I don't know who it is, but as long as Owings is our 5th starter, we just aren't going to be able to contend.

No, we just realize there are bigger issues/concerns the Reds need to address in order to contend, but yes, we realize 5th spot needs to improve, as does the 3 and 4, but they are not whats holding this team back. While he may not be an all star, he has for the most part given the team a chance to win most of his starts, its the same bats that let us down as for the other starters.