Maybe we misread their farm system, but I swear that just a couple years ago, it was discussed how the Cards' farm system was depleted. Unless I'm misremembering something, they were ranked really low, with Shelby Miller being the only real stud in their prospect list. Maybe Doug can correct me.
They're obviously doing something right in developing their players, especially late round guys like Adams or Siegrist. Who is a late round guy that the Reds have developed? Heisey? LeCure? Ondrusek?
Cardinal fans and others will get mad at me for posing this, so I will be as polite with this question as possible:Originally Posted by OesterPoster
It seems that every Cardinal pitcher who makes it to the bigs, has added around 3-5 MPH velocity to their fastball from the time they were drafted or signed. Rosenthal, Seigrist, Freeman, Martinez, Wacha, Miller, Kelly, Lynn, etc. They were mostly were college pitchers, and most don't have the big body types needed to produce such velocity.
What's the most logical explanation for something that extraordinary?
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
I think why Cardinals fans would get angry at that is because it's blatantly not true. First all, Martinez and Miller were not college pitchers. Miller was drafted out of high school and always had a high 90's fast ball. Martinez always had a high velocity fast ball. Also, why is it so hard to imagine that a pitcher in the bullpen will have more velocity on their average fastball than when they were a starter? Rosenthal, Seigrist, Freeman, etc were all starters in college and are now bullpen arms. Of course when they're starting, they're not going to go full speed on their fast ball due to stamina issues. Also, why is it so hard to believe that a young pitcher gains speed on their fastball as they get older?
Secondly, please post where you got your information from. You make a claim yet fail to back up your claim with any factual evidence of the increase in pitch velocity. From what I have read, guys like Rosenthal, Martinez, Miller, etc. have always had great fast balls. Right now, it looks like you're reaching and pulling something out from your underside.
And he's back!
So is it true that they throw harder, but there are logical explanations for it? Or is it blatantly not true that they harder?
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
I've been here for a while now, I just haven't been posting in the ORG.
It's blatantly not true some of the things you've said (IE mostly college pitchers, adding more velocity to their fastball since the signing or drafting). For example, many felt that Miller was the second best pitcher behind Strasburg in the 2009 draft and the reason why he fell to the Cards was because teams were not going to be able to sign him. He always had a high velocity fast ball. Martinez always had a high velocity fast ball.
Again, you're not posting where you're getting your information from. If you're making a claim, by logic you have to back it up. You insinuating that the reason why the young Cardinals pitching is doing so well is because of PED's is sickening, dishonest, and completely misses the mark as far as describing why the Cardinals have been successful this year. It's posts like yours that have made the ORG go from a once respectable forum to somewhat of a joke.
For Example:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/draft/...content=miller
"Miller threw his fastball up to 96 mph and throws comfortably at around 93 mph. He's been clocked as high as 98 mph."
That was his stuff coming out of the draft.
Joe Kelly draft report:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/draft/...?content=kelly
"Kelly can crank it up to 99 mph and sits regularly at 96 mph."
Are you going to retract any of what you said or do I need to keep posting these reports, 757690?
I understand you hate the Cards. I get it. That said, can't we at least have an honest discussion instead of you just making up stuff to back your points?
You must have missed Game 5 of the NLDS last year.
That's all we got at this point, Mike.
Last edited by malcontent; 10-10-2013 at 11:38 AM.
Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi
MikeThierry (10-10-2013)
I saw it, Latos melted down into a slobbering blob while the skipper let Rome burn then Posey bat.
I think you meant the Cards though...
Why do I love that expression so much?
Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi
Cardinals and Pirates finished ahead of the Reds largely due to player development.
Cingrani was the only help the Reds had all year long from the system. That was a big one as without Tony the Reds probably finished around the .500 mark. The lack of bats (even platoon or part time even) and/or bullpen arms to put the Reds over the top was depressing.
We can stop accusing the Cardinals of systematic cheating and start figuring out why they are churning out so much cheap and average/above average talent the last couple of seasons. Otherwise we'll be looking up at the Cards for the next 3-4 seasons.
MikeThierry (10-10-2013),Revering4Blue (10-10-2013)
I would like to apologize here personally to the admins and knowledgeable posters for spamming this topic I just get annoyed when I see someone purposely misleading people and giving false information to back up a crazy conspiracy theory. I'll go back to my NHL thread in the Tavern now.
No doubt about it.
It left me fantasizing last night about a scandalous trade where the Reds would have sent a couple "core" players to St. Louis for the players you listed.
Last edited by malcontent; 10-10-2013 at 11:50 AM.
Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi
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