Is he still a top 3 2B? If not where would you rank him?
Is he still a top 3 2B? If not where would you rank him?
Are we talking actual baseball ability, or swag?
Ability of courseOriginally Posted by jwertz
Cano, Kinsler, Carpenter, Kendrick, Kipnis, Pedroia, etc. all better offensively. Not as many better defensively, maybe only Darwin Barney. Short answer: No, Brandon Phillips is not a top 3 second baseman.
bullseye (12-15-2013)
No. I would say top 3 defensively but from an offensive standpoint I would have to put him probably in the 7-11 range, probably sandwiched between the likes of Martin Prado and Ian Kinsler.
You can't just separate defense from offense when ranking 2Bman unless you are just talking one part of their game. Carpenter is a heckuva lot better hitter but pretty much a butcher on defense at second. Barney is a defensive whiz but makes BP look like a superstar at the plate. I'd rank offense as 2/3rds of the grade and defense a third at second, just my subjective view. Cano is first, I'd take Carpenter over BP just because his bat is that much better it overwhelms his defense, but I'd take BP over Ellis, Kinsler or Prado for his overall game. I'd rank Kipnis and Pedroia ahead of BP overall, and Kendrick about even. I'd say he's overall the 4th to 6th best second baseman overall, something like that. For age, cost and production I think I'd take Jason Kipnis first overall - Cano is obviously better but at a huge salary. Carpenter is a better hitter but really belongs at third.
99% of all numbers only tell 33% of the story so when looking at the numbers remember that numbers is plural...
Wherever he is put in that order, the Reds cannot replace him with someone better at this point. We are stuck with him unless we want to downgrade the defense and batting order in one move.
It comes down to me his defense. He was asked this past season to hit fourth and drive in runs, nothing more nothing less offesively and he did that, mean while playing flawless D in the field. He did that for a bargin of $10 million and only missed 11 games. Sorry but I will take that every day. Now this upcoming season lets see what the Reds ask of him to do at the plate and his D in the field and review at the end of the season.
Votto is God, and since BP is pretty much the total opposite of Joey.
BP now sucks - according to a large number of posters on this site.
I like Votto, but unlike some I don't see him as the "great" player others do. Yes he is a very disciplined hitter, maybe to a fault, but his defense always worries me and well, in the world of sports someone that is viewed to be on the level he is needs to be more of a leader then I see him as being.
You guys keep saying that we can't replace him with someone better at 2nd base.. That's true, but if we can trade him for a good outfielder, it's worth it! I don't think you guys realize that we have ludwick and BH pencilled in our outfield this year.. I'll take a downgrade at 2nd base if it means solidifying a good centerfielder or a nice power righty in left field.
He's top 5 for sure. His defense makes up for his offensive woes when they come around
Not sure what you were watching. Carpenter did a nice job at 2B...particularly given that he had only the winter to prepare. His range was very good and got better as the season progressed. A "butcher" he isn't. Clearly BP is a better defensive 2B. It would be a shock if he weren't. But, your description of Carpenter's defense is just not accurate.
Clearly Wong is a natural 2B so moving Carp to 3d is good for the Cardinals. But, my guess is if the Cards still had Carp at 2B, he'd be even better this year. Unlike Schumacher, who compares unfavorably to a fireplug re range, Carp covers nicely to both sides.
For instance, who could BP bring us? Clearly not Gardner. So who?
I think he still is in the top 3, but his window is closing. I don't think his defense will ever suffer enough to drop him out of the top 10 in his career. The formula for BP's ranking goes like this:
Defense - Offense + Swag = Top 3.
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