Joe Torre was dog meat until 1996.Originally Posted by 757690
Joe Torre was dog meat until 1996.
When all is said and done more is said than done.
Joe Torre won the World Series in 4 of his first 6 trips to the playoffs.
All of those guys listed did it in less time than Dusty's 19 years.
“I don’t care,” Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. “He’s in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.”
I like what I heard from Walt about sitting down with Dusty to talk about what the philosophy would be going forward, acknowledging there is still work to do, and then comes the 2 year deal. I think this can mean there is a good chance this offseason will involve further improvements to the team. I think we can all agree with the right additions this team could really be amazing next year.
Until there are improvements made, I don't believe they are coming. I project the 2013 roster, as it is right now, without Ludwick and without the Madson buyout, being about $93M.
Dusty removed Leake 2 batters after the circumstance you describe (the first hit the second time thru the order). And the one batter after the second hit sacrificed.
The narrative and the facts aren't matching up here.
And look I hate the way things went down as much as you do. But Leake went 3 up 3 down in the 3rd. Allowed 1 walk no hits in the 4th. Allowed back to back doubles to start the 5th and was yanked after the sacrifice, with 4 runs on the board against him at that point, down 2.
Worst mangerial gaffe ever....that's a bit much I'd say.
Last edited by kaldaniels; 10-15-2012 at 10:59 PM. Reason: Wrong facts
The thing about Stubbs is he'll cost a few million and upgrade the offense when he's gone. I think Bailey and Leake will be on the block to avoid their raises as well. Basically, anyone not named Latos who is up for arbitration will probably be on some lists as trade bait. I expect they will look around, although finding a match is usually hard.
Do you have some arb estimates you'd like to share? I'm not great at it, but I figured right about where you did for payroll next year a while back. Are you subtracting he deferments to Arroyo and others?
Really? Among the batting lead-off for so long ("because he's fast"), staying in the lineup for so long ("We need his D"), and even starting all 5 playoff games, even the 3 in our small park, you think he's not his biggest fan?? What are you basing this off?Dusty wasn't Drews biggest fan. I'd say this pushes Stubbs closer to the door.
320
I'd rather listen to Kelch read the phone book than suffer through Thom Brennaman's attempt to make every instance on the field the most important event since the discovery of manned space flight. -westofyou
There were some not so subtle hints before the trade deadline from Dusty that certain players have had their chance and it's time to look at trades, which they did when they almost got Span from the Twins to play CF.
Not so much when you look at playoff appearances.All of those guys listed did it in less time than Dusty's 19 years.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
I had Stubbs, Heisey and Bailey getting a combined $5M in arbitration. I don't see them being moved because of raises. They will be getting very moderate raises. I simply used cots for the payroll, but I don't think the deferments are going to make much difference at all. The Reds may have a few million to spend. Enough to maybe get a poor starting caliber player or a quality bench player or two.
I don't know about worst managerial gaffe ever, but you've got 11 guys over there and you probably don't want to use your game 5 starter, but don't you think you would have somebody warm?
It was even more comical in game 5. 5th inning with 2 runs in the bases loaded and the likely NL mvp at the plate...wouldn't you have somebody warm?
Now....you don't have to use the guy, but wouldn't you like the option? I see that maybe not having somebody warming up looks like confidence in his guys and everything but.....it's the post season and you've got 11 guys on your pitching staff.....why not use them?
In the long run I guess this gets back to using relievers in high leverage situations instead of in defined roles. Wouldn't it have been something if Buster Posey came to the plate and Aroldis Chapman was there standing on the hill?
"Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010
This roster's gonna get awfully cumbersome if we can't fill in some positions at minimum wage in the next few years. Hamilton, Cingrani, and Corcino can hopefully take some of the load off, but beyond that, our cupboard's pretty bare until you hit Billings.
I'm not eager to spend the next two years seeing if that rep is justified. They've outright wasted three years of their current window. It isn't going to stay open forever.
Cincinnati Reds: Farm System Champions 2022
You know, Buster Posey hits homeruns some times. If Lecure (or whomever) was brought in and gave up a homer, Baker is torn to shreds for that. Latos had generally pitched pretty well and just didn't control that situation that well. If he gets out of it, and was close numerous times, he could have been strong for numerous innings.
Not to mention that it could easily be argued that Bochy shouldn't have even had struggling pitchers in the game in the first place. I mean, the Reds torch lefties, why was Zito even starting the first place? Lincecum looked pretty electric against us. Zito was close one batter away from being torched numerous times. Bochy was fortunate that did not get out of hand before he was taken out.
Why does it always have to be someone's fault? It's 5 games, and in the end, the results get evaluated to death. There were numerous combinations of events that could have transpired after the respective decisions by the managers. If Hanigan grounds sharp to SS, and Stubbs follows up with a homer, is Dusty a genius for applying the hit and run? That was certainly an event that could have happened, and due to the extreme randomness of baseball, it's just not fair to go purely off of results without considering the complexity of some of the decisions required.
In the end, the Reds best pitcher got injured in game 1 immediately which changed the whole complexion of the staff that Baker was preparing for the series. The best hitter in baseball was relegated to the calibre of an aging Todd Helton role, rather than his normal MVP self. The Reds had a run differential in the 5 games that if extrapolated over 162 games would line up with a team with a record comparable to the Reds regular season success. However, at the level of baseball, you're still likely to lose 45% of the games. That's unfortunately how baseball works. The Reds were so close to winning that series in a number of different ways, and due to some bad luck, randomness, and strong play by the Giants at crucial points, the Giants were able to win despite largely, IMO, being outplayed by the Reds.
If you think that replacing Dusty Baker with a flavour of the month managerial candidate, I think you are dead wrong, not familiar with the inadequacies of the average manager out there, and really over analyzing a few select results that turned ugly at the wrong time.
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