Anybody else upset???????

[Spring~Fields]

I don't care about about lineups, stupid bunts, and the like (though I reserve the right to complain). I just want to see our young guys continue to develop. Because if that doesn't happen, nothing else really matters.

I saw that watching the younger players develop is all that is left to this season, weeks ago, as I am sure that you did also, and you're right if they don't, how many future seasons are already in the tank without their development?

Unless Castellini and his group wants to carry a payroll like St. Louis and Chicago did where Jocketty and Baker prospered before coming to Cincinnati, they don't have those same discretionary funds with Cincinnati that they did in St. Louis and Chicago at this time. While it is also a factor that the competition will still be out there the entire way attempting to improve their teams as the Reds work on theirs.

St. Louis, Chicago and Houston significantly out spend the Reds organization and will probably continue to as player cost continues to rise.

[RedsManRick]

The main problem - and this is where fans the team itself gets in trouble - is that we need to separate the dreams from reality. It seems as though there's a large chunk of fans who believe this talent infusion will morph the Reds into an offensive juggernaut. What I mean by this is people start believing, no hoping, that certain young players turn into a specific dream. And when it doesn't happen (odds are much greater it won't than it will), people are left hanging.

Don't get me wrong Cyclone. Their maturation wouldn't make us a great offensive team and I am in no way suggesting that we can or should simply sit back and wait. I agree completely that we cannot assume Bruce will be a star, Votto will be anything more than he already is, and that EE will ever be more than league average. Rather, I'm suggesting that if they don't develop, we're screwed for the next 2-3 years anyways. So while I will continue to hope Jocketty goes out and adds more talent, my attention the remainder of 2008 will be focused on following their development.

How Jocketty pivots in to 2009 should be quite interesting. Just don't confuse my willingness to sit back and watch the development of the guys we have with the notion that we can rely on said development for our future success.

[OnBaseMachine]

Plus this is the classic late decade crapfest by the Reds before a rise

1968 - so close no pitching
1977 - fall from grace
1989 - Rose and injuries
1998 - 77 Wins and a deal of the Reds AS rep

You gotta dream

Yep. It stinks that the Reds are stinking up the joint so early in the season but it's still going to be an exciting second half of the season IMO. Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Johnny Cueto, Edinson Volquez, and Daryl Thompson are all going to be fun to watch. They give us hope. They're the reasons why the future looks bright for this club. Hopefully Jocketty can deal off some of the high priced vets and land some more young talent to go with the existing talent and build this team toward a winner in 2009 and beyond.

[Spring~Fields]

Rather, I'm suggesting that if they don't develop, we're screwed for the next 2-3 years anyways. So while I will continue to hope Jocketty goes out and adds more talent, my attention the remainder of 2008 will be focused on following their development.

How Jocketty pivots in to 2009 should be quite interesting. Just don't confuse my willingness to sit back and watch the development of the guys we have with the notion that we can rely on said development for our future success.

Yes

[red-in-la]

Dickerson is likely to be worse than Patterson. Totally overmatched, just like Janish.. That doesn't mean that Patterson is good, but at least Patterson has a small chance to hit. Dickerson and Janish have virtually no chance to hit.

There is really no internal options at this time to replace Patterson. The Reds are going to have to pick up an OF or two for next year, but they are in a sticky spot. Let's say they pick up a starting caliber OF, with the intention of starting him next year.. Unless Jr or Dunn is sent away, there's no where to play him unless you send Bruce to the bench or AAA. I know some will say to bench Jr, but that's just not going to happen.

Patterson doesn't even have a chance to take a pitch, much less hit. Maybe Dickerson would at least see 4 or 5 pitches an at bat.

Besides, he would be guarenteed to be at least more interesting. I have a better swing than Patterson does. He is an almost guarenteed can-o-corn every time up.

[Big Klu]

Just because we haven't seen Dickerson play, doesn't mean the Reds brass haven't seen him play. I'm sure they have seen enough of him to conclude that he would be of no help to the club (at least at this stage of his career), and that the team (either for the short term, long term, or both), is better off having Patterson in Cincinnati and Dickerson in Louisville. Now if you don't agree with--or have doubts about--Walt's talent-evaluating capability, then that's a whole different topic.

[Highlifeman21]

Hopper's the only one I'm upset about it. He has no place on this roster. He brings nothing.

I'd add Valentin to that list as well.

[GAC]

I don't know why so many are upset over one Corey Patterson starting when we've been trying to convert (make starting material) out of "Corey Patterson's" (marginal utility players) on this team for years.

Our FO is obviously able to see something in these guys we're all missing.

[Falls City Beer]

I'd add Valentin to that list as well.

Valentin's been known to hit a double or two in his career. Even a HR.

[Highlifeman21]

Valentin's been known to hit a double or two in his career. Even a HR.

Fair enough, but they are treating Valentin like a DH (minus his circus act at 3B the last couple of games). We never see Valentin in the field, and Valentin's our saving grace as a a PH. Whoopie.

You are correct that Hopper is utterly useless. Fields worse than Dunn, and his SLG borders on being lower than his OBP (90+% of which is driven by his AVG).

Very rarely do you see a guy wasting a roster spot by being solely a PR.

[TeamBoone]

Fair enough, but they are treating Valentin like a DH (minus his circus act at 3B the last couple of games). We never see Valentin in the field, and Valentin's our saving grace as a a PH. Whoopie.

You are correct that Hopper is utterly useless. Fields worse than Dunn, and his SLG borders on being lower than his OBP (90+% of which is driven by his AVG).

Very rarely do you see a guy wasting a roster spot by being solely a PR.

In all fairness, he's not a third baseman... he's just playing where he's told, unlike an Astro player who shall not be named. You certainly can not expect him to do well there.

[Spring~Fields]

Sometimes when things seem to go so bad I find myself thinking that the bench is calling the pitches and that someone on the bench has given the various batters that all seem to go bad at once, some bad advice, and I have no clue why I think that.

I just can't see how so many batters go so bad seemingly at once for a sustained period of time against various pitchers. On the other hand I imagine the bench is calling the pitches because the announcers will complain about the pitches called in an order or pitch selection and the pitcher gets rocked, again I find it hard to believe so many could be so bad at times.

I guess it is the clouds of defeat clouding my mind.

[Spring~Fields]

Jocketty needs to bring in his own people Tony Larusa, Dave Duncan and McRae. Baker, Pole and the rest of the coaching staff are not up to Jocketty standards of excellence.

                  ERA
Josh Fogg        9.85 
Danny Herrera    9.00 
Homer Bailey     8.76 
Matt Belisle     7.28 
B. Arroyo        6.52 
Todd Coffey      6.46 
Gary Majewski    5.06 
Johnny Cueto     5.01 
Mike Lincoln     4.58 
Aaron Harang     4.51 
J. Affeldt       4.38 
D. Weathers      3.86 
Kent Mercker     3.29

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/...ype=2&type=reg

Last Seven          BA   OBP
J. Keppinger       .154 .267 .154 .421 
J. Valentin        .167 .167 .167 .333 
Jay Bruce          .174 .192 .217 .410 
C. Patterson       .176 .176 .412 .588 
Adam Dunn          .190 .261 .333 .594 
K. Griffey Jr.     .217 .280 .478 .758 
Paul Janish        .222 .417 .222 .639 
J. Hairston Jr.    .250 .250 .250 .500 
E. Encarnacion     .250 .333 .375 .708 
B. Phillips        .318 .360 .364 .724 
David Ross         .333 .429 .333 .762 
Joey Votto         .348 .400 .565 .965

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/...ype=2&type=reg

I just don't believe that so many players go bad together without a reason. Clearly this manager and his staff don't have the right answers.

[red-in-la]

Just because we haven't seen Dickerson play, doesn't mean the Reds brass haven't seen him play. I'm sure they have seen enough of him to conclude that he would be of no help to the club (at least at this stage of his career), and that the team (either for the short term, long term, or both), is better off having Patterson in Cincinnati and Dickerson in Louisville. Now if you don't agree with--or have doubts about--Walt's talent-evaluating capability, then that's a whole different topic.

Is this the same Reds brass that said the team was coming together just a couple of weeks ago....that they had turned a corner as it were?

My point of the thread was that I am beginning to lose faith in the Reds brass.

If Dickerson would be so bad, then why does the Reds brass have him playing Cf for their AAA team? After all, isn't he supposed to be one of the new and talented studs in the pipeline?

Hoping the Reds are building a winner here is almost as bad as believing that whichever Senator we elect to be President will bring about CHANGE in Washington.

[Jpup]

Jocketty needs to bring in his own people Tony Larusa, Dave Duncan and McRae. Baker, Pole and the rest of the coaching staff are not up to Jocketty standards of excellence.

The only thing worse than watching Dusty manage the Reds would be having to endure Tony Larussa.