Old school 1983 (10-25-2013)
Frazier in 2012: .273 .331 .498 .829
Last time Sandoval had an OPS over .789: 2011.
Anyone thinking Sandoval is going to bounce back to his 2011 form after being GENEROUSLY listed at 240 this year (WTH?) is dreaming. http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-weight-again/
262 at 3B.
I just don't see the point of weakening the defense to put the better defender in a position where defense is not as important. Again, you upgrade LF by getting a LF.
Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.
Until Frazier's supporters truly address his offensive fall off in 2013, I'm not persuaded he should be a starting player on a top team.
As noted, Frazier's ground ball rate rose dramatically and his line drive rate was one of the lowest on the team.
IMO the league figured out Frazier last year.
I see no reason to assume he will revert to 2012 numbers unless he alters his swing/approach.
Sandoval is simply a better hitter. The Reds have a number of weak hitting positions, they won't get better unless they improve a few of them.
If the Reds said that they have a meaningful plan to change Frazier's swing/approach, I would listen. I like his defense; he has power and can be effective, but something in his swing/approach needs to change.
Otherwise, I think they have to consider a change at the position, or a platoon, or something.
Last edited by Kc61; 10-25-2013 at 11:05 AM.
Old school 1983 (10-25-2013),SidneySlicker (10-25-2013)
Before 2013 Frazier had 534 career ab's in the bigs. I've always thought that it wasn't that unusual for players to struggle when they have some experience but still have a lot of inexperience too.
REDREAD (10-28-2013)
You can have all the defense you want, but the truth of the matter is: how important is it really? You can have GG'ers at every position yet it is not going to matter because more likely than not, especially at GABP, the opposing team is going to hit a HR or two in a game.
If you take a hit on defense and add offense then I would think your team gains a lot more from that. Honestly, how many defensive plays does a GG'er make a game than an average or below average fielder? Maybe 1 or 2 plays? How many of those plays save a run? Maybe 1 a game if the other team threatens enough.
Now think about adding Pablo to the lineup. You are adding a power hitting threat to a lineup where he is going to get 4 or 5 ABs a game.
By comparison, both Pablo and Frazier got a little over 300 chances to field balls and both got over 580 PAs.
Again, I think if something is worked out where you can acquire Pablo with either sending away money or getting some in return, then I think that you do it. He can play 3B adequately and Frazier becomes a utility guy who can get everyday playing time in OF, 3B, 2B, and 1B. As well as being great off the bench.
2015 Attendance 2-1 (4/6, 4/7,4/24)
2014 Attendance 1-3 (3/31, 4/12, 8/14)
2013 Attendance: 6-0 (4/3, 4/16, 4/17, 8/3, 8/21, 9/7)
The Giants aren't going to give Sandoval away. He's a fan favorite, for one thing. Who would go to SF in exchange?
Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi
irrelevant. it's the singles that matter. Sandoval may not have k'd 50 extra times, but he only reached base 19 more times.
19 times over 24 weeks. 3 fewer walks, 22 more singles.
8 million for 19 times reaching 1B. And here is the kicker. Frazier scored more runs. 11 more in fact. Seing as how he had 8 more XBH's that sounds about right.
8 million for 19 more times on base. No thanks.
Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.
So much wrong with this. Defense doesn't matter? at 3B?
If that's the case, why isn't EE still a Red? And I love Encarnacion. very good hitter, better than Frazier and Panda. But no team will put him at 3B.
Frazier is one season removed from being 3rd in the ROY ballot with an .821 OPS. Panda is two seasons removed from a .900 OPS and is 60 pounds heavier.
Getting a LF is a better idea. If that's Choo because Hamilton shows he's ready in ST, then that's the way to go.
Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.
Homer Bailey (10-28-2013),redsfandan (10-27-2013)
Not saying we should go out and get Sandoval, but it's not like Frazier is a great fielder either. Average at best over there.
marcshoe (10-25-2013)
A LF instead of 3B? This sounds like the Reds are one hitter away. IMO they need to upgrade multiple positions offensively.
And I still don't see anyone suggesting that Frazier's spike in grounders or low line drive rate were a fluke or can be expected to change next year. If so, then why?
Sandoval is a lifetime .827 OPS player over six MLB seasons. Despite his fall off he still had an OPS+ 23 points better than Frazier.
23 points is really nothing. you are missing the bigger picture.
I see Frazier as a sophomore slump one year removed from an .827 OPS. Can he rebound? .261 .316 .523 .839 this past September. Small sample to be sure, but he's athletic. I see a huge rebound for him back to a lower to mid .800 OPS and an increase in HR's to the mid 20's. Todd had 0 HR's in May and only 1 in July. that's clearly an aberration. his average the other four months was 4.5. I can see him hitting 26 HR's next year.
Meanwhile Sandoval keeps getting bigger. He'll be 27 next year, age prime year, but his OPS last year was over 150 points lower than two years ago. He's not getting smaller. He's not gaining speed. And he'll be worse defensively next year if the weight doesn't come off. And honestly, how much of 262 do you expect him to lose over the winter?
Panda makes ZERO sense for the Reds.
Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.
redsfandan (10-27-2013)
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