Edd Roush (07-17-2013),mdccclxix (07-17-2013),powersackers (07-19-2013),Puffy (07-18-2013),Raisor (07-18-2013),Revering4Blue (07-17-2013),texasdave (07-17-2013),Tom Servo (07-17-2013),TRF (07-23-2013)
In the long run it could be, but the Reds would be getting perhaps the best hitter in the history of baseball for the next few years.
Lets break it down:
Votto = elite (top 10 hitter in the game today)
Chapman = elite closer (did you read that fangraphs articles about how easily bullpen arms fall off the planet?)
Winker = good prospect at a low level
Hamilton = Stock is dropping, basically failing at AAA, can't teach speed though...
Ervin = at a very low level in the minors, may end up being a good major league player in 3-4 years
Cingrani = has seen success so far, but I see him as a late inning reliever, not a starter
Miguel Cabrera = top 5 hitter all time, may end up the best.
I regularly read a Tigers board (grew up in Toledo) and I remember when they made the trade for him. There were many posters freaking out about trading Maybin and Miller, saying they gave up too much. Maybin and Miller are now marginal major leaguers, neither of which play for the Marlins.
Last edited by RedTeamGo!; 07-17-2013 at 03:41 PM.
757690 (07-17-2013),HeatherC1212 (07-18-2013),indy_dave00 (07-17-2013),powersackers (07-19-2013),Puffy (07-18-2013),Raisor (07-18-2013),reds44 (07-17-2013),TRF (07-23-2013)
powersackers (07-19-2013)
Wow, Miggy has a 201 OPS+ this year. That is insane. Imagine what he would do in GABP.
He has a 5.6 WAR, Votto is at 4.3 according to baseball-ref. I understand the other players may make up the difference down the line, but the next couple years I think Miguel would give the Reds a better shot at a WS than Votto, Chapman and Cingrani (not counting the MiLBers as they will not be in the ML roster for awhile)
Really not seeing why it would be "the worst trade ever." It is Votto, a reliever and a bunch of prospects that may or may not pan out (history shows us most do not)
I would bet if you offered that trade to the Tigers they would say no and continue riding the Miggy train.
In each of the last 3 seasons Cabrera average WAR of 6.6, and Votto averaged 6.3. Cabrera is having a great season, but it's hard to elevate him a whole lot beyond that going forward based on 90 games makes little sense when he already has a fairly established value.
Giving up 2 young, inexpensive, and productive roster players, and 4 of the organization's best prospects in order to get somewhere between a .3-1 WAR upgrade at 1st base aint high on my lsit of priorities.
On the same token, would you give up Chaps, Stephenson, Cingrani, Hamilton, Ervin, and Winker in order to acquire Alfonso Soriano?
Because essentially that would have about the same effect to the Reds as upgrading from Votto to Cabrera. It really is that insane.
Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 07-17-2013 at 04:23 PM.
reds44 (07-17-2013),Revering4Blue (07-17-2013)
People literally said the same thing when proposals of moving Votto, Cueto, Bailey, and Stubbs for Erik Bedard were discussed.
Teams (and especially the Reds in comparison to the dark years) are getting much better at converting prospects into big league players. Look at the Reds roster:
1. Chapman - prospect signed through minor league system
2. Bruce - Reds draft pick
3. Cozart - Reds draft pick
4. Frazier - Reds draft pick
5. Votto - Reds draft pick
6. Bailey - Reds draft pick
7. Cueto - Reds prospect signing
8. Cingrani - Reds draft pick
9. Leake - Reds draft pick
10. Hanigan/Mes - Reds draft picks
Where would the Reds be without these guys (I'll give you a hint, Houston Astros)? The top end prospects are the lifeline of a team like the Reds. Moving essentially all of them to fix, what, Votto?
Are you starting to see why this would be awful? There is another dimension out there where you were named GM of the Reds, converted the trade, fast forwarded through time, and then smacked yourself in the face as the Reds had to fold, while the Tigers continued to be playoff contenders for all of the years in between. You are now out of a job in that dimension and have no way of feeding your family (which in this dimension you have 15 kids). Do you really want to be responsible for that?? As you can see these proposals have serious ramifications.
Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 07-17-2013 at 04:24 PM.
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