Reading through this thread you'd think Tony Cingrani was a 16th round draft pick whose fastball tops out at 89 MPH. It's like some people are waiting for him to fail like they know it's going to happen. When I see a lefty throwing his fastball from 92-96 with good location I get excited. But thats just me. Yes his breaking pitches need a little work but this kid has what it takes to be one of if not the greatest pitcher to ever toe the rubber. I just don't get how some can't see this.
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If Cingrani only becomes a Cole Hamels type I'll be slightly disapponited. Hamels is an ace of our time but when I see Cingrani pitch I see potential to be one of the all time greats to ever pitch. Time will tell.
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8 complete games in a row to start the season, that's wild. Fernando was pretty good from '81 to '86. He had quite the workload on a young arm.Originally Posted by westofyou
Nah, probably not, but I find it interesting, especially if you can make a comp list for something like that with no bums on it. And even Dice K had a couple of decent years.
Cingrani is exciting. Really bizarre that the Reds have so much pitching talent.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
wlf WV (04-30-2013)
Fans' expectations for Cingrani have reached the stratosphere now. What happens when he has a couple bad starts?
They will demand he be traded for a below average Leftfielder.
Bold statement. I would wait for Cingrani to get three seasons under his belt instead of three games before I make a statement like that one. I hope you are right!
If Cingrani becomes more than a Cole Hamels type I don't think he will be playing most of his career in Cincy. 144 million reasons he will move on to somewhere else.
Not at the major league level.
This is true. At each level he has excelled. And that performance (progress) merits him being them promoted to the next level. And any player's success at the minor league level merits further promotion. There is no arguing that. But success in the minors does not necessarily translate into success at this level.He has established one helluva track record as he's moved through the minors. Each step up, we've been told, NOW will be the time he's found out. And each step up he puts up the same crazy lines.
I'm simply addressing some of the pronouncements being made, which IMO are rather rash, that after 3 starts, at this level, this FO needs to be looking at making this kid a staple in our rotation when Cueto returns. Too small of a window IMO to be making such judgments. It very well could prove to be true. Lets just wait and see. There is no rush.
I love what I've seen so far from this kid. I love his attitude, the way he attacks the batter (strike zone). He doesn't seem to be intimidated. But he basically has two pitches - the FB and curve, and relies, IMO, too much on the FB. That, and the fact he is an "unknown" to major league level hitters around the league are not factors that should be so easily discounted.
I think mth123 makes valid points.....
Personally, I think he'll be sent back down once Johnny returns. And not because he merits it, but for other valid reasons that will supersede his performance....
1) He has options. They don't have that with the other SPs, other then giving someone their outright release. No one, including Leake, at this stage, merits that. They aren't going to "disrupt" their starting rotation when they don't need to (that's key). They'll send him down knowing that Cingrani answered some questions for them as far as the ability to pitch at this level. They'll keep him in "reserve" at AAA where he can pitch regularly, work on other pitches, and be "on call" if the need arises.
If the kid is the real deal then he'll be back. That we know for certain. I think we'll get to know more about him, as far as evaluation goes, over the next month (several more starts).
"In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)
Yes, three starts in the majors, GAC. I get that. But this weird "he has to prove it" stuff that people fall back on with regard to kids moving into the majors always feels odd to me, as there is no way to "prove it" without getting a chance to...prove it.
So how to determine if someone should get that chance? Well, all we have there, really, from our viewpoint (since we don't get to hang with scouts etc.), is what they have done in the minors. And Cingrani's minors track record is exemplary. And what he has done in three starts in the majors is in line with what we saw in the minors. It isn't like this is someone with a career 4.26 FIP in the minors and a middling K:BB ratio throughout his minor league stops and has then turned in a 3-start supernova in the majors out of line with what we have seen before. No, this is pretty much who Cingrani has been as he has moved up.
So, really, "its just 3 starts" is a nice thing to recite and what not, but it isn't like that "just 3 starts" is divorced from the body of work he has turned in before this...
Last edited by membengal; 04-30-2013 at 06:11 AM.
Exactly. If the current Reds were years away from contention I could understand an argument not to let Cingrani achieve Super Two status, but the 2013 Reds are built to win now.
"Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."
I personally don't care about Super 2. That is just money, and it takes over 2 months in order to prevent Super 2. Yet for free agency it's 20 days in the minors. That is essentially 3 starts and you have him under control for another year. When Cueto comes back I am fine with sending him down for 20 days and letting Leake pitch 3 more times. Heck, they have a bunch of off days in the next 2 months and could even skip the 5 spot a couple of times. It could work out to 2 starts and maybe even just 1 start.
Unassisted (04-30-2013)
Maybe leake should go down to AAA and prove something for 20 days...
Well, that's what those words mean. He was here. If they don't keep him, he will have been lost/subtracted. I headed out the door today with two shoes on my feet. If I don't return with them, I have lost them. If I do return with them, I haven't added them. ---M2
If Cingrani spends the rest of the season on the MLB roster, he will spend 165 days on the roster, which is not enough to qualify for a full season. 172 is what is necessary. So no need to send him down to slow his free agency clock.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
Sarcasm?
“Every level he goes to, he is going to compete. They will know who he is at every level he goes to.” -- ED on EDLC
what Tony is doing simply makes the Arroyo decision simpler. For this season Cingrani is great insurance...and he can pitch from the pen, something Leake has not looked good at (small sample alert). Leake cannot be sent down so that choice is moot. If no one else is DLed Cingrani goes to thr pen or back to AAA. If he goes down it won't be for long. last years no DL magic is over and gone. The Reds will win this division without TC....but I believe he needs to be in the rotation by September no matter what. Then the Reds have a front four for the playoffs, where you need just 4 starters, that match anyone. Leake, far from the dispersions cast at him, is a solid end rotation starter. His numbers are soso because he has terrible games when he is off but he also throws a number of very very starts. And that consistency is the difference between being TOR or end. Just tossing him aside or trading him would be very foolish. So, part of the decision will be roster influenced - and you cannot demote Leake without losing him. That means another starter gets dld, you release or trade Leake, or boot someone from the pen and use Cingrani there(far more effective scenario than imagining Leake walking in from the pen in a tie game 7th with the Cards) or you send TC down to keep him on the rotation in Louisville ready to come back. What Tony does this year makes the Arroyo decision easy and frees a good chunk of money this winter(gone in raises but it will at least mean perhaps they won't have to look at dealing someone just to hold the budget in line).
REDREAD (04-30-2013)
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