May 5th...
I share a birthday with Ron Oester...
Also this stuff happened..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_5th
My birthday is October 25th.
Nothing really notable happened that day (except for my birth, of course)
I share my birthday with Angela Cartwright, the voice of BART SIMPSON.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
http://dalmady.blogspot.com
June 11 is the date on which Vince Lombardi, Joe Montana and I were born, and the date on which John Wayne and David Brinkley died. I do not yet know if I actually share my date of death with anyone famous, but should I find out, I will let everyone know.
"Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."
Went to the site RedsMetz posted and found this little tidbit on mine
1977 Cincinnati Reds tie record of 12 runs in 5th inning beating Atlanta Braves 23-9
and
1978 Phillie Phanatic makes 1st appearance
Cool.
In those things which we commit to practice we can master, and with mastery we have the freedom to use these skills whenever we desire, without this practice we are slaves to our inability.
May 24th, 1935 - Crosley Field in Cincinnati, Ohio, hosts major-league baseball's first night game ever as the Cincinnati Reds beat the Philadelphia Phillies 2-1.
"In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)
August 22--me and Yaz.
My wife was born on the same day as Lance Berkman and a day after Vlad Guerrero.
I doubt she cares.
I was born on Rob Dibble's birthday. January 24.
October 22nd
1811 Franz Liszt Raiding, Hungary, romantic composer/virtuoso pianist
1845 Sarah Bernhardt France, silent film actress (Camille, Queen Elizabeth)
1870 Ivan Bunin Russia, poet/novelist (Gentleman from SF-Nobel 1933)
1880 Joe Carr Ohio, NFL hall of famer/NFL president (1921-39)
1885 Giovanni Martinelli Montagnana Italy, opera singer (NY Met)
1887 John Reed journalist who reported on Mexican, Russian revolutions
1896 Charles Glenn King biochemist (discovered vitamin C)
1898 Damaso Alonso Spanish poet (Hijos de la ira)
19-- Barrie Youngfellow Cleve Ohio, actress (Jan-It's a Living)
19-- Bobby Blotzner rock drummer (Ratt-Round & Round)
19-- Judith Blazer actress (As the World Turns)
1905 Constance Bennett actress (Easiest Way, Ladies in Love)
1905 Karl Jansky discovered cosmic radio emissions in 1932
1906 Sidney Kingsley author (Darkness at Noon)
1907 Jimmie Foxx baseball HR hitter (Detroit Tigers)
1915 Harry Hickox Big Springs Tx, (Herb-Please Don't Eat the Daisies)
1916 Sid Miller Shenandoah Pa, actor (Donald O'Connor Texaco Show)
1917 Joan Fontaine Tokyo Japan, actress (Gunga Din, Ivanhoe, Rebecca)
1919 Doris Lessing novelist (Golden Notebook)
1920 Mitzi Green NYC, actress (Little Orphan Annie, So This is Hollywood)
1920 Timothy Leary Harvard prof, LSD taker
1922 John Chafee (Sen-R-RI)
1923 Pete Pihos NFL end (Phil Eagles)
1925 Robert Rauschenberg US, painter (Gloria)
1929 Dory Previn pop singer (Love Be My Cover)
1933 Donald H Peterson Winona Mississippi, Col USAF/astronaut (STS 6)
1934 Donald McIntyre Auckland NZ, Bass-Baritone (Wotan-Das Rheingold)
1935 Judy Devlin Hashman 10 time badminton champ (1957-67)
1938 Christopher Lloyd Stamford Ct, actor (Taxi, Back to the Future)
1938 Derek Jacobi London England, actor (Lanner-Strauss Family)
1939 Tony Roberts NYC, actor (Annie Hall, Edge of Night, Lucie Arnaz Show)
1942 Annette Funicello Utica NY, actress (Mickey Mouse Club)
1943 Catherine Deneuve [Dorleac], Paris, actress (Repulsion, Hunger)
1943 Paul Zukofsky Brooklyn NY, violinist (Cappricio)
1945 Leslie West [Weinstein] rocker (Mountain-Mississippi Queen)
1947 Lee Meredith [Judith Lee Sauls], River Edge NJ, actress (Producers)
1948 John Peterson US, Middleweight (Olympic-gold-1976)
1952 Jeff Goldblum Pitts Pa, actor (The Fly, Thank God it's Friday)
1952 Patti Davis aka Patricia Ann Reagan, 1st daughter (House of Secrets)
1961 Barbara Potter Ct, tennis player (changed shirt on Wimbledon Court)
1961 Leonard Marshall NFL defensive end (NY Giants)
1963 Brian Boitano US, figure skater (Olympic-gold-1988)
1963 Cherie Witter Everett Wash, playmate (February, 1985)
1966 Valeria Golino Naples Italy, actress (Rain Man, Little Flames)
1980 Michael Fishman actor (DJ-Roseanne)
1985 Zachary Walker Hanson Tulsa OK, drummer-Hanson, (MMMBop)
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1071 - William IX, Duke of Aquitaine and poet (d. 1126)
1197 - Emperor Juntoku of Japan (d. 1242)
1511 - Erasmus Reinhold, German astronomer and mathematician (d. 1553)
1592 - Gustaf Horn, Swedish soldier and politician (d. 1657)
1688 - Nadir Shah of Persia (d. 1747)
1689 - King John V of Portugal (d. 1750)
1692 - Elizabeth Farnese, second queen of King Philip V of Spain (d. 1766)
1729 - Johann Reinhold Forster, German botanist (d. 1798)
1770 - Thomas Seebeck, Baltic German physicist (d. 1831)
1809 - Volney E. Howard, American politician (d. 1889)
1811 - Franz Liszt, Hungarian pianist and composer (d. 1886)
1818 - Charles-Marie-René Leconte de Lisle, French poet (d. 1894)
1821 - Collis Potter Huntington, American railroad executive (d. 1900)
1844 - Louis Riel, Canadian Metis Political Leader (d. 1885)
1858 - German Empress Augusta Victoria, wife of German Emperor Wilhelm II (d. 1921)
1865 - Kristjan Raud, Estonian painter (d. 1943)
1870 - Alfred Douglas, English partner of Oscar Wilde (d. 1945)
1870 - Ivan Bunin, Russian writer, Nobel Prize laureate (d. 1953)
1873 - Gustaf John Ramstedt, Finland-Swedish linguist and diplomat (d. 1950)
1881 - Clinton Davisson, American physicist, Nobel Prize laureate (d. 1958)
1886 - Erik Bergman, Lutheran pastor (d. 1970)
1887 - John Reed, American journalist (d. 1920)
1891 - Parker Fennelly, American comedian and actor
1894 - Méi Lánfāng, Chinese opera performer (d. 1961)
1900 - James Hall, American actor
1903 - George Wells Beadle, American geneticist, Nobel laureate (d. 1989)
1903 - Curly Howard, American actor and comedian, member of the Three Stooges (d. 1952)
1904 - Constance Bennett, American actress (d. 1965)
1905 - Joseph Kosma, Hungarian-born composer (d. 1969)
1907 - Jimmie Foxx, American baseball player (d. 1967)
1908 - John Gould, American humorist, essayist, and columnist (d. 2003)
1912 - Frances Drake, American actress (d. 2000)
1913 - Bảo Đại, Emperor of Vietnam (d. 1997)
1913 - Robert Capa, American war photographer (born in Hungary) (d. 1954)
1913 - Hans-Peter Tschudi, Swiss Federal Councilor (d. 2002)
1917 - Joan Fontaine, British actress
1918 - Lou Klein, American baseball player (d. 1976)
1919 - Doris Lessing, British writer
1920 - Timothy Leary, American writer and professor (d. 1996)
1921 - Georges Brassens, French singer (d. 1981)
1921 - Alexander Kronrod, Russian mathematician (d. 1986)
1925 - Robert Rauschenberg, American painter, sculptor, and graphic artist
1925 - Dory Previn, American songwriter
1927 - Allan Hendrickse, South African politician (d. 2005)
1929 - Lev Yashin, Soviet footballer (d. 1990)
1935 - Ann Rule, American true-crime writer
1936 - Bobby Seale, American civil rights activist
1937 - Manos Loïzos, Greek composer (d. 1982)
1938 - Derek Jacobi, English actor
1938 - Christopher Lloyd, American actor
1939 - George Cohen, English footballer
1939 - Tony Roberts, American actor
1942 - Annette Funicello, American actress
1942 - Bobby Fuller, American rock singer and guitarist (d. 1966)
1943 - Jan de Bont, Dutch film director
1943 - Catherine Deneuve, French actress
1943 - Allen Coage, American professional wrestler
1945 - Leslie West, American musician
1945 - Sheila Sherwood, British long jumper
1946 - Kelvin MacKenzie, British media tycoon
1946 - Claude Charron, French Canadian politician and TV personality
1946 - Eddie Brigati, American singer (The Rascals)
1947 - Raymond Bachand, French-Canadian politician and businessman
1948 - Lynette Fromme, American attempted assassin of Gerald Ford
1949 - Stiv Bators, American musician (The Dead Boys) (d. 1990)
1949 - Arsène Wenger, French football manager
1952 - Jeff Goldblum, American actor
1956 - Frank DiPino, American baseball player
1959 - Arto Salminen, Finnish writer (d. 2005)
1959 - Marc Shaiman, American composer
1961 - Robert Torti, American actor
1962 - Bob Odenkirk, American actor and comedian (Mr. Show)
1963 - Brian Boitano, American figure skater
1964 - Dražen Petrović, Croatian basketball player (d. 1993)
1964 - Toby Mac, American singer and songwriter
1965 - John Wesley Harding, American musician
1965 - Otis Smith, American football player
1966 - Valeria Golino, Italian actress
1967 - Rita Guerra, Portuguese singer
1967 - Ron Tugnutt, Canadian ice hockey player
1967 - Ulrike Maier, Austrian alpine skier (d. 1994)
1968 - Shaggy, Jamaican musician
1968 - Stéphane Quintal, Canadian ice hockey player
1968 - Jay Johnston, American actor and comedian (Mr. Show)
1969 - Héctor Carrasco, Dominican baseball player
1969 - Spike Jonze, American director and film producer
1969 - Helmut Lotti, Belgian singer
1972 - D'Lo Brown, American professional wrestler
1973 - Ichiro Suzuki, Japanese baseball player
1974 - Tim Kinsella, American musician
1974 - Miroslav Šatan, Slovak ice hockey player
1975 - Míchel Salgado, Spanish footballer
1976 - Jon Foreman, American musician (Switchfoot)
1978 - Owais Shah, English cricketer
1978 - Dion Glover, American basketball player
1979 - Brian Gould, American professional
1980 - Garrett Tierney, American musician (Brand New)
1981 - Olivier Pla, French racing driver
1982 - Robinson Canó, Dominican baseball player
1985 - Zachary Hanson, American musician (Hanson)
1995 - Miles Rout, Genius New Zealander
1990 - Jonathan Lipnicki, American actor
1992 - Sofia Vassilieva, American actress
Deaths
1565 Jean Grolier de Servi‚res French bibliophile, dies
1932 Anna Dickinson dies just a week shy of her 90th birthday
1934 Charles "Pretty Boy" Floyd shot dead by FBI in Ohio
1979 Jesse Bishop murderer, dies in Nevada gas chamber
1984 Napoleon Whiting actor (Silas-Big Valley), dies at 75
1986 Ivor Francis actor (Dusty's Trail), dies at 68
1986 Jane Dornnacker WNBC-AM NYC helicopter traffic reporter dies doing
a live traffic report as her copter crashes
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741 - Charles Martel, leader of the Franks (b. 686)
1383 - King Fernando I of Portugal (b. 1345)
1565 - Jean, Vicomte d'Aguisy Grolier de Servieres, French bibliophile (b. 1479)
1613 - Pomponio Nenna, Italian composer
1625 - Kikkawa Hiroie, Japanese politician (b. 1561)
1674 - Gerbrand van den Eeckhout, Dutch painter (b. 1621)
1708 - Hermann Witsius, Dutch theologian (b. 1636)
1751 - William IV, Prince of Orange (b. 1711)
1755 - Elisha Williams, American rector of Yale College (b. 1694)
1792 - Guillaume Le Gentil, French astronomer (b. 1725)
1847 - Sahle Selassie, Negus of Shewa
1859 - Louis Spohr, German violinist and composer (b. 1784)
1891 - Ernst von Fleischl-Marxow, Austrian physiologist (b. 1846)
1906 - Paul Cezanne, French painter (b. 1839)
1917 - Bob Fitzsimmons, English boxer (b. 1863)
1918 - Myrtle Gonzalez, American film and stage actress (b. 1891)
1927 - Borisav "Bora" Stanković, Serbian writer (b. 1876)
1928 - Andrew Fisher, fifth Prime Minister of Australia (b. 1862)
1934 - Pretty Boy Floyd, American gangster (b. 1904)
1935 - Komitas, Armenian composer (b. 1869)
1952 - Ernst Rüdin, Swiss nazi physician (b. 1874)
1954 - Jibanananda Das, Bengali poet (b. 1899)
1973 - Pablo Casals, Catalan cellist and conductor (b. 1876)
1978 - John Riley, English poet (murdered) (b. 1937)
1979 - Nadia Boulanger, French composer and composition teacher (b. 1887)
1986 - Albert Szent-Györgyi, Hungarian physiologist, Nobel Prize laureate (b. 1893)
1986 - Jane Dornacker, musician, actress, and traffic reporter for WNBC Radio.
1986 - Ye Jianying, Chinese general and politician
1987 - Lino Ventura, Italian-born actor (b. 1919)
1989 - Ewan MacColl, English folk singer, songwriter, socialist, actor, poet, playwright, and record producer (b. 1915)
1992 - Cleavon Little, American actor (b. 1939)
1995 - Sir Kingsley Amis, English writer (b. 1922)
1998 - Eric Ambler, English novelist (b. 1909)
2000 - Rodney Anoa'i, aka Yokozuna, American professional wrestler (b. 1966)
2001 - Prof. Dr. Dkfm. Helmut Krackowizer, journalist and motorcycle racer (b. 1922)
2002 - Queen Geraldina of the Albanians (b. 1915)
2005 - Arman, French-born artist (b. 1928)
2005 - Tony Adams, Irish film producer (b. 1953)
2005 - Franky Gee, American singer (Captain Jack) (b. 1962)
2006 - Arthur Hill, Canadian actor (b. 1922)
Events
1746 Princeton University (NJ) received its charter
1797 Andr‚-Jacques Garnerin makes 1st parachute jump from balloon (Paris)
1836 Sam Houston inaugurated as 1st elected pres of Republic of Texas
1875 Sons of the American Revolution organized
1883 1st NY Horse Show held (Madison Sq Garden)
1883 Original Metropolitan Opera House (NYC) grand opening (Faust)
1906 3000 blacks demonstrate & riot in Phila
1922 Lucerne Street in the Bronx named
1922 Parsifal Place laid out in Bronx, named for knight in Wagner's Opera
1928 Pres Hoover speaks of "American system of rugged individualism"
1936 1st commercial flight from mainland to Hawaii
1938 1st Xerox copy made
1939 1st TV NFL game-Eagles vs Dodgers
1949 200 killed in train derailment near Nowy Dwor Poland
1950 LA Rams beat Baltimore Colts 70-27
1953 Laos gains full independence from France
1954 West Germany joins North Atlantic Treaty Organization
1962 JFK imposes naval blockade on Cuba, beginning missile crisis
1962 Pacific Science Center opens at Seattle Center
1963 225,000 students boycott Chicago schools in Freedom Day protest
1966 USSR launches Luna 12 for orbit around Moon
1968 Apollo 7 returns to Earth
1969 KAPN-AM in Santa Barbara CA changes call letters to KDB-AM
1972 Oakland A's 1st championship; beat Reds, 4 games to 3 in 69th World Series
1973 Security Council Resolution 338-cease fire to the Yom Kippur War
1974 Yanks trade Bobby Murcer to Giants for Bobby Bonds
1975 Cin Reds beat Boston Red Sox, 4 games to 3 in 72nd World Series
1975 Soviet spacecraft Venera 9 soft-lands on Venus
1975 World Football League disbands
1976 Rick Barry (SF), begins then longest NBA free throw streak of 60
1977 International Sun-Earth Explorers 1 & 2 launched into Earth orbit
1978 Laugh-in's Judy Carne arrested at Gatwick Airport for drug possession
1979 Deposed Shah of Iran arrives in NY for medical treatment
1979 Walt Disney World's 100-millionth guest
1980 New South Korean constitution comes into effect
1981 Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization decertified
1981 US national debt tops $1 trillion
1984 NFL quarterback Ken Stabler retires
1984 Paul McCartney releases "Give My Regards to Broad Street" soundtrack
1988 Elton John sells out MSG for a record 26th time
1988 Supreme Ct Justice Sandra Day O'Connor OK after breast cancer surgery
1989 Denver Nuggets beat Jugoplastika Split 135-129 in 3rd McDonald Open
1991 General Motors announces 9 month loss of $2.2 billion
2136 -BC- Chinese make 1st record of a solar eclipse
4004 -BC- Universe created at 8:00 PM, according to the 1650
4004 -BC- pronouncement of Anglican archbishop James Ussher
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4004 BC - Date the universe was created according to British Archbishop James Ussher after using the Bible's chronology to calculate the date.
362 - The temple of Apollo at Daphne, outside of Antioch, is destroyed in a mysterious fire.
794 - Emperor Kanmu relocates Japanese capital to Heiankyo (now Kyoto).
1236 - Lithuanians and Samogitians defeat the Livonian Brothers of the Sword at the Battle of Schaulen/Saule.
1383 - The 1383-1385 Crisis in Portugal: A period of civil war and disorder began when King Fernando died without a male heir to the Portuguese throne.
1575 - Foundation of Aguascalientes.
1692 - Last hanging for witchcraft in the United States.
1746 - The College of New Jersey (later renamed Princeton University) receives its charter.
1784 - Russia founds a colony on Kodiak Island, Alaska.
1792 - French Revolution: the first Republic is proclaimed.
1797 - One thousand meters (3,200 feet) above Paris, André-Jacques Garnerin makes the first recorded parachute jump.
1836 - Sam Houston is inaugurated as the first President of the Republic of Texas.
1844 - The Great Anticipation: Millerites, followers of William Miller, anticipated the end of the world in conjunction with the Second Advent of Christ. The following day became known as the Great Disappointment.
1866 - Paraguay: Battle of Curupaytí against Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay.
1867 - Foundation of the National University of Colombia.
1869 - Debut of Richard Wagner's Das Rheingold in Munich.
1875 - First telegraphic connection in Argentina.
1877 - The Blantyre mining disaster in Scotland kills 207 miners. Those widows and orphans who were unable to support themselves were evicted by the mine owners and likely sent to the Poor House.
1878 - The first rugby match under floodlights takes place in Salford, between Broughton and Swinton.
1883 - The Metropolitan Opera House in New York City opens with a performance of Gounod's Faust (opera).
1895 - In Paris an express train overruns a buffer stop and crosses more than 30 metres of concourse before plummeting through a window at Gare Montparnasse.
1907 - Panic of 1907: A run on Knickerbocker Trust Company stock sets events in motion that will lead to a depression.
1910 - Dr. Crippen is convicted at the Old Bailey of poisoning his wife and was subsequently hanged at Pentonville Prison in London.
1924 - Toastmasters International is founded.
1926 - J. Gordon Whitehead sucker punches magician Harry Houdini in the stomach in Montreal.
1934 - In East Liverpool, Ohio, notorious bank robber Pretty Boy Floyd is shot and killed by Federal Bureau of Investigation agents.
October 22 page from a 1935 Soviet revolutionary calendar with six-day weeks.1935 - Establishment of the rank of Marshal of the Soviet Union.
1943 - World War II: Kassel: RAF conducts an air raid on the city of 236,000 people, killing 10,000, rendering 150,000 homeless. Second firestorm raid in Germany
1943 - World War II: Salvo D'Acquisto is shot by Wehrmacht soldiers.
1946 - Forty four British sailors die when two British warships hit mines off the coast of Albania.
1949 - Soviet Union detonates its first nuclear bomb.
1953 - Laos gains independence from France.
1956 - A concrete girder weighing 200 tons kills 48 in Karachi, Pakistan.
1957 - Vietnam War: First United States casualties in Vietnam.
1960 - Independence of Mali from France.
1962 - Cuban Missile Crisis: US President John F. Kennedy announces that American spy planes have discovered Soviet nuclear weapons in Cuba, and that he has ordered a naval "quarantine" of the island nation.
1964 - Jean-Paul Sartre is awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature, but turns down the honor.
1964 - Canada: A Multi-Party Parliamentary Committee selects the design which becomes the new official Flag of Canada.
1965 - End of the Second Kashmir War between India and Pakistan.
1966 - The Supremes become the first all-female music group to attain a No. 1 selling album (The Supremes A' Go-Go).
1968 - Apollo program: Apollo 7 safely splashes down in the Atlantic Ocean after orbiting the Earth 163 times.
1970 - Tunku Abdul Rahman resign from Prime Minister of Malaysia.
1972 - Vietnam War: In Saigon, Henry Kissinger and South Vietnamese President Nguyen Van Thieu meet to discuss a proposed cease-fire that had been worked out between Americans and North Vietnamese in Paris. Thieu rejects the proposal and accused the United States of conspiring to undermine his regime
1974 - Dan Holt, first baby conceived and delivered inside a U.S. federal prison, is born.
1976 - Red Dye No. 4 is banned by the US Food and Drug Administration after it is discovered that it causes tumors in the bladders of dogs. The dye is still used in Canada.
1981 - The United States Federal Labor Relations Authority votes to decertify the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization for its strike the previous August.
1981 - The founding congress of the Nepal Workers and Peasants Organisation faction led by Hareram Sharma and D.P. Singh begins.
1981 - The TGV railway service Paris-Lyon is inaugurated.
1983 - Two correctional officers are killed by inmates in Marion, Illinois. The incident inspired the Supermax model of prisons.
1986 - U.S. President Ronald Reagan signs the Tax Reform Act of 1986 into law.
1986 - WNBC traffic reporter Jane Dornacker is killed when the helicopter she is riding in stalls and crashes into the Hudson River.
1987 - John Adams's opera Nixon in China debuts at the Houston Grand Opera in Houston, Texas.
1987 - The pinnacle rock "Gendarme" falls at Seneca Rocks.
1989 - Jacob Wetterling is abducted in St. Joseph, Minnesota.
1990 - Seminal grunge band Pearl Jam, then named Mookie Blaylock, play their first show as a band at the Off Ramp club in Seattle, WA.
1991 - Dimitrios Arhondonis, metropolitan of Chalcedon elected 270th Archbishop of Constantinople, New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch as Patriarch Bartholomew I of the Orthodox church.
1999 - Maurice Papon, an official in the Vichy France government during World War II, is jailed for crimes against humanity.
2001 - Pardon the Interruption, a sports talk show hosted by Michael Wilbon and Tony Kornheiser, makes its debut on ESPN.
2005 - Tropical Storm Alpha forms in the Atlantic Basin, making the 2005 Atlantic Hurricane Season the most active Atlantic hurricane season on record with 22 named storms.
2005 - Crash of Bellview Airlines Flight 210 in Nigeria kills all 117 on board.
2005 - The first phase of Transantiago, the new public transport system of Santiago de Chile is implemented.
2006 - A Panama Canal expansion proposal is approved by 77.8% of voters in a National referendum held in Panama.
2006 - Michael Schumacher drives his last Formula 1 Race. The very same day the Spaniard Fernando Alonso wins the 2006 Formula 1 World Championship, becoming the 8th and youngest driver to win it twice in a row, like Mika Häkkinen, Michael Schumacher and five other drivers had done before.
As evidence that I'm a demon seed, my birth coincided with the first all-out players strike in Major League Baseball history (early April 1972). Later that year, Jackie Robinson threw out the first pitch at Riverfront during the world series. The Reds then lost that series in 7 games, and soon after Jackie Robinson died a relatively young man.
You're welcome. Be glad I didn't bring the plague too.
Stick to your guns.
You share your birthday with Nancy Cartwright, the voice of Bart Simpson. Angela Cartwright was a child actress in the 60s, known for her role in My Three Sons and, of course, her immortal portrayall of Brigitta von Trapp in the Sound of Music, a movie which you obviously did not watch once a month for about ten years, thank you.
There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.
In honor of my arrival onto this planet in 1954, Texas Instruments introduced the transistor radio. Mighty nice of them, don't you think?
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