Was a joke. How in the heck do you allow Ramon to walk towards the dugout and then jog down to first? Come on guys this is basic baseball and you blew it.
Was a joke. How in the heck do you allow Ramon to walk towards the dugout and then jog down to first? Come on guys this is basic baseball and you blew it.
How should the umpires have handled the situation? It's not their job to tell Hernandez to run to first. Are you saying he should have called him out as soon as he started twoards the dugout?
Sto Pro Veritate
As soon as Ramon leaves the dirt and is on the grass heading towards the dugout he is out, that is the rule, as soon as he did that the umpire should have signaled "out".Originally Posted by Girevik
I'd have to see the rule to know, but if that's the case the Cubs could have, and should have protested the game. I didn't see anyone on the Chicago side arguing that point.
Sto Pro Veritate
The rule is once the batter/runner commits to the dugout they are giving themselves up basically. It is only at that point can the umpire call them out. It's a rule that is not black and white because you have to as the umpire determine the intent of the hitter/runner. In last night's case Ramon was on the grass and closer to the dugout then the basepath and thus was "out".
I heard last night that a runner is allowed to establish his line on the way to first as long as it's on the playing field and not obstructing the team trying to get him out. Something weird like that. They said he could have went right up beside the dugout and it would have been okay.
They were awful at multiple points last night. The two main screwups were related to the home plate umpire seemingly making no call. Maybe that is what he is supposed to do on the Cairo/Ramon play, but he seemingly just sat there calling nothing either way until the Reds started running the bases. Is there no signal for the catcher dropping the 3rd strike? At that point Cairo should've been called out for sure as he was nearly all the way to the dugout when he started running..
Just as bad of a call was in the 1st inning on Castro's K. The count was 3-2. The runner went and the pitch was on the corner. The ump doesn't ring up the batter (or make any signal that I could see) and then the Reds didn't bother to tag the stealing runner thinking it was a walk. The ump apparently said strike 3 because Castro was out and they gave the runner a steal.
The Cubs did argue this call you are talking about right after it happened BTW.
I think there is a difference between a normal run to 1st and this scenerio where he is advancing on a strike 3.
Yeah probably, to be honest I'm not sure how the rule works. I think it was on Baseball Tonight that I heard that...they were saying that he was totally fine within the rules on that play and it wasn't considered leaving the basepaths.
The signal for a dropped third strike is a strike call (without the your-out until a tag has been applied.
What if this is as good as it gets?
In the issue with Ramon, all the home plate umpire can do is call a 3rd strike, he can not signal an out till an out has occured and until Ramon was either tagged, or thrown out at first or the runner at first thrown out at second, no umpire can signal an out. Now once Ramon made no attempt to run to first and in fact was heading to home then the umpire should have signaled 'out' and that is where they blew it.
That doesn't sound right to me. I'd have to see a rule that says not making an attempt to run means you're out.
Sto Pro Veritate
When a hitter starts toward the dugout, it's a forfeited at-bat. I hate to say it, but Cairo was out.
I do not have the rule book memorized, but given the constant debate over this, I am certain that this is not "basic baseball".
I also believe that if the rule was clear, the Cubs probably have one or two folks on the payroll that could cite it chapter and verse. Further, in the modern media cycle, every announcer and their brother would be citing that rule in broadcasts today.
My guess is that the reason they are not is because it is not clear cut.
I agree, if this were an obvious thing then not only the Cubs but the national media would be all over it.
Sto Pro Veritate
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