Turn Off Ads?
Page 18 of 25 FirstFirst ... 8141516171819202122 ... LastLast
Results 256 to 270 of 364

Thread: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

  1. #256
    Probably not Patrick Bateman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    8,824

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    It makes as much sense as Mike Leake gaining a bunch of velocity while increasing his command of pitches he has learned to throw with much more movement.
    You asked for someone to describe a way that leake could improve.

    They did.

    You have now mocked them for doing so.

    I love ya Jo, but not your best work if your intention was to provide a thought provoking discussion.

  2. Likes:

    jimbo (03-29-2013),membengal (03-29-2013),mth123 (03-29-2013),PuffyPig (03-29-2013),RadfordVA (03-29-2013),Screwball (03-29-2013)


  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #257
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,904

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    There's an article from the last few seasons where Leake is quoted as saying that he forces himself to "slow down" his fastball to generate more movement, the implication being that his pitches straighten out as he works into the 90s.

    I think Leake has to be a soft-tosser in order to survive -- which pretty much caps his growth at #5/swingman level.
    It's a bit of an exaggeration to call a guy working in the low 90s a "soft tosser."

    Kirk Saarloos -- definite soft tosser.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  5. #258
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    It makes as much sense as Mike Leake gaining a bunch of velocity while increasing his command of pitches he has learned to throw with much more movement.
    Are you trying to be obtuse?

    C'mon, man. He has the velocity in his hip pocket-- he's just chosen not to use it in past years in order to give more movement to his pitches. (There are reports of this pretty much wherever you want to look in the net.) It's more than possible that, as he ages, he will learn how to throw with more movement AND more velocity.
    Last edited by Scrap Irony; 03-29-2013 at 07:20 AM.

  6. #259
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    21,390

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    You asked for someone to describe a way that leake could improve.

    They did.

    You have now mocked them for doing so.

    I love ya Jo, but not your best work if your intention was to provide a thought provoking discussion.
    How often in the history of pitching has a pitcher gained command and movement by throwing harder? It's counterintuitive to argue that a major league starting pitcher is likely to undergo that transformation successfully. That was the point. No one is arguing that they don't want it to happen. It's just that wanting it to happen doesn't make it likely to....this is a belly that one should need to poke twice before accepting as reality.
    Last edited by jojo; 03-29-2013 at 07:43 AM.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #260
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    21,390

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Are you trying to be obtuse?

    C'mon, man. He has the velocity in his hip pocket-- he's just chosen not to use it in past years in order to give more movement to his pitches. (There are reports of this pretty much wherever you want to look in the net.) It's more than possible that, as he ages, he will learn how to throw with more movement AND more velocity.
    What you're describing would be a rare transformation.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #261
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    13,579

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    It's a bit of an exaggeration to call a guy working in the low 90s a "soft tosser."

    Kirk Saarloos -- definite soft tosser.
    Amusingly enough, Mike Leake's fastball (career average FB of 89.1MPH) is actually closer to Kirk Saarloos (85.6 MPH) than it is to Johnny Cueto (93 MPH).
    Cincinnati Reds: Farm System Champions 2022

  9. #262
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    13,308

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Aroldis Chapman > Mike Leake in every aspect of the game on the mound. Leake is a decent hitter.
    You actually don't know that as "starting pitchers". You can speculate all you want, but until Chapman actually pitches as a starter for a full season, we don't "know" how he will do.

  10. Likes:

    REDREAD (03-29-2013)

  11. #263
    Member RollyInRaleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    15,738

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    I'm not sure why it has to be Chapman > Leake. I guess people are going to take out their miffed frustration on Mike Leake all season. I hope Mike Leake has a great year for the Reds. If Chapman was starting, I would wish the same for him. I guess if Leake fails, the soap box will be a proud place to crow for his detractors.

  12. Likes:

    jimbo (03-29-2013),marcshoe (03-29-2013),REDREAD (03-29-2013),thatcoolguy_22 (03-30-2013)

  13. #264
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    13,579

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    I'm not sure why it has to be Chapman > Leake. I guess people are going to take out their miffed frustration on Mike Leake all season. I hope Mike Leake has a great year for the Reds. If Chapman was starting, I would wish the same for him. I guess if Leake fails, the soap box will be a proud place to crow for his detractors.
    I'd like to at least make the record clear that I've been in favor of dumping Mike Leake for a long time -- Chapman has nothing to do with my belief that Mike Leake should be replaced by a better pitcher.
    Cincinnati Reds: Farm System Champions 2022

  14. #265
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Venice
    Posts
    33,270

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    What you're describing would be a rare transformation.
    We've only been able to track such information for a few years, so to be honest, we have no idea how rare it is. I have no idea if Leake has been able to do this, but we really can't use history to discount it, when there really is no history to look at.
    Hoping to change my username to 75769023

  15. #266
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    4,436

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I'd like to at least make the record clear that I've been in favor of dumping Mike Leake for a long time -- Chapman has nothing to do with my belief that Mike Leake should be replaced by a better pitcher.
    I can't imagine why anyone would have wanted to dump Leake prior to last season. His rookie year in 2010 was a great success and in 2011 he was the second best pitcher on the Reds behind Johnny Cueto. On top of all that, he was being paid peanuts, freeing the Reds up to spend money elsewhere.

    Unless 'a long time' is measured in months, I don't see how anyone could have wanted to get rid of Leake for 'a long time'.

  16. #267
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    21,390

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    We've only been able to track such information for a few years, so to be honest, we have no idea how rare it is. I have no idea if Leake has been able to do this, but we really can't use history to discount it, when there really is no history to look at.
    A general understanding of pitcher development indicates the transformation suggested is swimming against the current.
    Last edited by jojo; 03-29-2013 at 11:09 AM.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  17. #268
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    21,390

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    I can't imagine why anyone would have wanted to dump Leake prior to last season. His rookie year in 2010 was a great success and in 2011 he was the second best pitcher on the Reds behind Johnny Cueto. On top of all that, he was being paid peanuts, freeing the Reds up to spend money elsewhere.

    Unless 'a long time' is measured in months, I don't see how anyone could have wanted to get rid of Leake for 'a long time'.
    Leake is an unmigated success. He's a first round draft pick that has contributed to the major league club for several seasons.

    That's a different thing than arguing he will become a TOR arm.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  18. Likes:

    thatcoolguy_22 (03-30-2013)

  19. #269
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    4,436

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Leake is an unmigated success. He's a first round draft pick that has contributed to the major league club for several seasons.

    That's a different thing than arguing he will become a TOR arm.
    I agree.

    I think it is highly unlikely that he becomes a TOR arm (though anything is possible I suppose), but I think there is a good chance he develops into a quality MOR arm. Regardless, he is certainly not a guy who should be discarded nor does he deserve all the scorn that heaped upon him.

  20. #270
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: Buster Olney says scouts are raving about Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    What you're describing would be a rare transformation.
    Would it?

    I'd argue that a whole host of pitchers continually add and subtract mph from their fastballs (and other offerings) and are in constant tinker mode, searching for the right mix of mph and movement.

    Leake has, by almost all accounts, an extra tick of speed he hasn't used yet in the majors. So far, he's gotten by with the same old, same old-- lots of movement, less speed. A control pitcher's arsenal without great control.

    It's not rare at all to think he could add some of those mph back into his fastball to both straighten out his wayward command and to miss more bats.

  21. Likes:

    jimbo (03-29-2013)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | Gallen5862 | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator