Two beefs with tonight's game that makes it so frustrating...

[Legion of Dunn]

Totally "unnecessary" loss tonight.

(A) The pitch to Tracy in the first. No reason for it. Completely avoidable situation. Never, ever give in to the hitter in that situation. As much as I hated them, one thing that made those Braves staffs so great in the last 10-15 years was they never, ever gave in to the hitter. You were always going to hit their pitch and their pitch only, or the next batter would have to take his chances in that scenario.

(B) I just have no patience at all for major leaguers who can't bunt and/or managers that don't call for it. I'm not sure what happened there with the Encarnacion at-bat, but it was simply inexcusable.

I feel like I've wasted too many nights of my life on nights like these when the Reds head west.

[Caveat Emperor]

(B) I just have no patience at all for major leaguers who can't bunt and/or managers that don't call for it. I'm not sure what happened there with the Encarnacion at-bat, but it was simply inexcusable.

Edwin Encarnacion is, allegedly, one of the guys the team was counting on to be a run-producer this year. He has power, OPS'd .832 last year, and is a middle-lineup hitter.

Once he worked himself into a hitters count (2-0), I have no problem with allowing him to swing away and attempt to drive the runners in on his own. He's a run producer -- that is what he is asked to do on a nightly basis. The fact that it didn't work out this particular time doesn't make it a bad choice.

You can second guess until you're blue in the face -- but it wasn't an awful or inexcusable decision, IMO. Just one that didn't work out.

[reds44]

Eventually, players have to make plays.

The last 2 nights the Reds, mostly the hitters, haven't done that.

[jimbo]

I know one thing, I only needed to see one game with Hamilton starting to realize he should be the everyday CF. It doesn't have anything to do with the home run, even though that was pretty awesome, but it has everything to do with the fact that even though JH has only one career start in the majors, he is a more disciplined hitter that most of the Reds lineup. He gives you a good at-bat everytime and has a great eye. I also think he has better potential in CF over Freel. Start him.

[Legion of Dunn]

I know one thing, I only needed to see one game with Hamilton starting to realize he should be the everyday CF. It doesn't have anything to do with the home run, even though that was pretty awesome, but it has everything to do with the fact that even though JH has only one career start in the majors, he is a more disciplined hitter that most of the Reds lineup. He gives you a good at-bat everytime and has a great eye. I also think he has better potential in CF over Freel. Start him.

I could definitely live with that. I've never felt good about Freel as an everyday guy. Thing is, it's probably only a matter of time before both of them are.

Hamilton's plate discipline to lay off that one 3-2 pitch was very impressive.

[forfreelin04]

Edwin Encarnacion is, allegedly, one of the guys the team was counting on to be a run-producer this year. He has power, OPS'd .832 last year, and is a middle-lineup hitter.

Once he worked himself into a hitters count (2-0), I have no problem with allowing him to swing away and attempt to drive the runners in on his own. He's a run producer -- that is what he is asked to do on a nightly basis. The fact that it didn't work out this particular time doesn't make it a bad choice.

You can second guess until you're blue in the face -- but it wasn't an awful or inexcusable decision, IMO. Just one that didn't work out.

I tend to agree with you there when the count went 2-0. But it is hard to switch gears as a hitter from bunting to knocking in the go ahead run. 2-0 I woulda went with the take sign if anything. Now if it was 3-0 I would have definitly went with the take sign. I'm of the opinion you can't change your approach totally midway through an at bat.

[Razor Shines]

I tend to agree with you there when the count went 2-0. But it is hard to switch gears as a hitter from bunting to knocking in the go ahead run. 2-0 I woulda went with the take sign if anything. Now if it was 3-0 I would have definitly went with the take sign. I'm of the opinion you can't change your approach totally midway through an at bat.

I completely disagree with those two statements. It's not that hard, in fact it's not hard at all. The thought of it being hard shouldn't even cross the mind of a Major League hitter.

[forfreelin04]

bottom line is folks.... Jerry is not the guy. He never will be. I don't care if Homer is up here mowing guys down like a firing squad, Loshe is pitching excellent baseball, and Matt Belisle becomes a reliable starter. jerry will find a way to cost us ball games. Your manager should maximize your success not hinder it with mindless batting lineup changes and freakish bullpen choices.

[TOBTTReds]

I completely disagree with those two statements. It's not that hard, in fact it's not hard at all. The thought of it being hard shouldn't even cross the mind of a Major League hitter.

I'm with you. Woody Williams did it yesterday in the Cubs game. Got a single right up the middle after a couple bunt attempts.

[forfreelin04]

I completely disagree with those two statements. It's not that hard, in fact it's not hard at all. The thought of it being hard shouldn't even cross the mind of a Major League hitter.

You'd think so because they ARE Major Leaguers. But preparing to bunt, when the infield knows your gonna do it and then changing to trying to hit something hard is two totally different things. It is easier to shorten up and his something Oppo because your still hitting. Bunting and then hitting is a totally different and more drastic change. You wouldnt ask a pitcher to intentionally walk a batter and then have them throw three pitches off the plate and then tell him to strike him out would you?

When you bunt, your doing a job. Your placing a ball far enough way from the fielders that the runners can advance thus sacrificing yourself for the good of the team. Now when you are hitting you are simply relying on your instincts seeing the ball where it is pitching and then hitting it with some sort of authority. They don't call bunting a lost art for nothing.

[AtomicDumpling]

We are all giving Encarnacion grief for not getting the bunt down, but don't forget that Gonzalez looked even worse on his bunting attempts. He tried twice and looked awful both times. Then he grounded into a double play. That harmed the Reds' chances to win more than EE did.

I am not a big bunting fan. I like it if there is a pitcher or other poor hitter at the plate. I don't like it with no outs, two men on base (one of which is already in scoring position) and one of your better hitters at the plate. The point of a bunt is to advance a runner into scoring position. If there is already a runner in scoring position I would not have a good hitter try to make an out on purpose. Drive in the run!

[Razor Shines]

bottom line is folks.... Jerry is not the guy. He never will be. I don't care if Homer is up here mowing guys down like a firing squad, Loshe is pitching excellent baseball, and Matt Belisle becomes a reliable starter. jerry will find a way to cost us ball games. Your manager should maximize your success not hinder it with mindless batting lineup changes and freakish bullpen choices.

Jerry's cost us games sure, but this one is on the players. They've got to perform. They had chances to get it done tonight and didn't.

[forfreelin04]

I'm with you. Woody Williams did it yesterday in the Cubs game. Got a single right up the middle after a couple bunt attempts.

Woody Williams' job is to bunt. This is the only real criteria that a pitcher is asked to meet in a ball game. Hits are just added flavoring. Woody has probably bunted more in the cage then he has hit linedrives. Now Ede someone who bunts minimally and is maybe asked to do so ONCE a month is a totally different thing. He practices bunting maybe two or three times during BP and he is only doing it because that is the requirement. Very rarely do batting practice pitchers make the batter lay down 3 perfect sac bunts. The hitters just want to get to the hitting part.

So when he is asked to bunt. He is hearkening back to something he very rarely does but (no excuses) should know how to do.

[forfreelin04]

Jerry's cost us games sure, but this one is on the players. They've got to perform. They had chances to get it done tonight and didn't.

You are very much correct it is on the players. But I don't think Jerry could manage even the best of MLB teams. We all must keep in mind the gentlemen who brought Jerry in.

[Razor Shines]

You'd think so because they ARE Major Leaguers. But preparing to bunt, when the infield knows your gonna do it and then changing to trying to hit something hard is two totally different things. It is easier to shorten up and his something Oppo because your still hitting. Bunting and then hitting is a totally different and more drastic change. You wouldnt ask a pitcher to intentionally walk a batter and then have them throw three pitches off the plate and then tell him to strike him out would you?

When you bunt, your doing a job. Your placing a ball far enough way from the fielders that the runners can advance thus sacrificing yourself for the good of the team. Now when you are hitting you are simply relying on your instincts seeing the ball where it is pitching and then hitting it with some sort of authority. They don't call bunting a lost art for nothing.

I'm sorry I completely disagree. It's not that hard to go from bunting to hitting, it's just not. I could see what you were saying if you asked a guy to hit instead of bunt as the pitcher was releasing the ball, but asking him to bunt on 2-0 then taking it off and saying hit away is different.

And your situation with the pitcher is completely different. Having a pitcher go down 3-0 and then asking him to strike out a hitter is not the same as having a batter attempt a bunt on 2-0, then have him hit on 2-1.