2011 Bengals Discussion

[PickOff]

I agree. While Palmer has to accept some of it, there was a HUGE communication problem with some of his "selfish" receivers running bad or wrong routes. I kinda liked it whenever Carson would confront/call them out on it too.

I was very impressed with Dalton, and think he and AJ have a very bright future in Cincy.

I was impressed with Dalton too. I am also happy that he can and does utilize the pump fake. That is one thing about Palmer that drove me crazy. A shoulder shrug just isn't the same thing.

The most encouraging thing about the game was the lack of delay of game and false start penalties. I don't know who to credit with that.

[CTA513]

I was impressed with Dalton too. I am also happy that he can and does utilize the pump fake. That is one thing about Palmer that drove me crazy. A shoulder shrug just isn't the same thing.

The most encouraging thing about the game was the lack of delay of game and false start penalties. I don't know who to credit with that.

Getting rid of Brat should help reduce the delay of game penalties.

[GAC]

Getting rid of Brat should help reduce the delay of game penalties.

There certainly wasn't no delay of game on that TD pass to Green!

I've come to the realization that if the Browns could find a way to eliminate the last 5 minutes of each game they'd probably make the play-offs! I've lost count, these past few years, on how many games they have choked away towards the end of the 4th quarter. LOL

[wolfboy]

While Palmer has to accept some of it, there was a HUGE communication problem with some of his "selfish" receivers running bad or wrong routes.

As an aside, "selfish" receiver #1 had one catch for all of 14 yards in his debut with New England. His one catch was reviewed upstairs. Maybe it's just bitterness on my part, but it seemed iffy because Mr. eight five was hot dogging it again.

[Stray]

Denver looked pretty bad. Oakland has a good dline, but I think our guys can get a lot of pressure on them. Kinda weird to think we could start 2-0.

[Hoosier Red]

Are you speaking generally, or just in the sense of come from behind wins?

Last year, arguably Palmer's worst, he still threw for more yards and touchdowns than Gradkowski has had in his career. Even at Palmer's worst, there's just no comparison between the two.

I was speaking more of the general feeling of confidence each inspired going into a game. Or into a specific situation.

Obviously statistically speaking it's not close. However, yards and touchdowns aren't really an accurate measure since Carson was a starting quarterback and Gradkowski was not.

Two years ago the Bengals won a lot of games the way they did on Sunday, didn't play well offensively, looked to be in a funk for about 2 1/2 quarters, but the defense kept them alive long enough for one big play to make the difference.

Carson had a lot of terrible statistical games that year, but he was in command of the offense enough to lead a late game/overtime charge.

The problem is that when you leave it to "one big play" the one big play goes against you as often as it goes with you which is the difference between 10-6 and 5-11.

[wolfboy]

I was speaking more of the general feeling of confidence each inspired going into a game. Or into a specific situation.

Obviously statistically speaking it's not close. However, yards and touchdowns aren't really an accurate measure since Carson was a starting quarterback and Gradkowski was not.

Two years ago the Bengals won a lot of games the way they did on Sunday, didn't play well offensively, looked to be in a funk for about 2 1/2 quarters, but the defense kept them alive long enough for one big play to make the difference.

Carson had a lot of terrible statistical games that year, but he was in command of the offense enough to lead a late game/overtime charge.

The problem is that when you leave it to "one big play" the one big play goes against you as often as it goes with you which is the difference between 10-6 and 5-11.

I think Palmer has physical skills that a guy like Gradkowski can only dream of. For that reason, if both started an equal amount of games, there's no way Gradkowski could match Palmer's numbers. I agree with you though that there's more to the story than yards and touchdowns.

I never felt like Palmer had the ability to embrace the leadership role the Bengals so desperately needed. I think Gradkowski has that quality. Unfortunately, without the physical skills he'll never be able to translate the leadership component into wins. Hopefully, he can impart some of the leadership component on Dalton, who appears to have the physical skills needed for the position.

[bucksfan2]

Re Carson:

There was a lot to like about Carson as a QB. He was big, strong, had a cannon for an arm. He put up several legit all pro seasons and was probably on his way to a borderline HOF career had Kimo not wrecked his knee and then subsequent elbow problems a few years later. Carson gave people hope of playoff runs, especially when you face a schedule like the Bengals do this season.

All that said he has some serious issues. As a leader I think Carson was lacking. He failed to control the huddle, both with getting to the line on time and also with controlling his WR's. He let the outspoken Chad and TJ dictate the huddle instead of taking full control of the huddle. Then when the organization went out and gave his brother a backup gig, drafted a slot WR, TE, and best overall WR in the draft Carson bailed on the team.

Gradkowski kind of reminds me of Kitna light. He isn't going to overwhelm you with talent. He isn't going to make throws that Carson was able to make. But what he is going to do is control the huddle. He is going to stick his nose in places that Carson wouldn't. He is the type of QB who if you let hang around long enough will make a play or two to beat you. He isn't the QB Carson is/was, but I hope the good that Gradkowski has rubs off on Dalton. I would gladly trade some rocket laser for some leadership and huddle control.

[UKFlounder]

In 2005, Carson was one of the best Bengals ever, perhaps one of the best players in the league, but after the knee injury he never was at that level again. I don't know if that season was a pure fluke (career year) of if he may have been able to repeat improve on it in the future, but he never was quite that good afterwards. He seemed to t throw a lot of interceptions too in the last few years (I was always surprised when he finised a game without one.)

[HotCorner]

Denver looked pretty bad. Oakland has a good dline, but I think our guys can get a lot of pressure on them. Kinda weird to think we could start 2-0.

I don't want to get too far ahead or overly excited but looking at their schedule they could get off to a huge start should the offense and defense continue to improve. I was not excited for this season to begin considering how the offseason transpired. The first two preseason games worried me as well. However I saw a lot of good things in the last two preseason games from the starters on both sides of the ball that gave me hope.

After game one, the hope is a bit stronger especially when I consider all of the young, unproven talent this team possess.

Here's the first eight games ...

W1 @ Cleveland (Won 27-17)
W2 @ Denver
W3 vs SF
W4 vs Buffalo
W5 @ Jacksonville
W6 vs Indy
W7 BYE
W8 @ Seattle
W9 @ Tennessee

As of today, Buffalo would appear to be their toughest opponent. However with a rookie QB you never know what you will get from game to game but my fingers are crossed.

[cincrazy]

In 2005, Carson was one of the best Bengals ever, perhaps one of the best players in the league, but after the knee injury he never was at that level again. I don't know if that season was a pure fluke (career year) of if he may have been able to repeat improve on it in the future, but he never was quite that good afterwards. He seemed to t throw a lot of interceptions too in the last few years (I was always surprised when he finised a game without one.)

Carson was pretty darn good in 2006. I think the cutoff point was the elbow problems. He was never the same QB after that. It's really sad that it ended this way. When he was at his best, he was one of the best in the game.

[wolfboy]

Gradkowski kind of reminds me of Kitna light.

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Oxilon]

Carson was pretty darn good in 2006. I think the cutoff point was the elbow problems. He was never the same QB after that. It's really sad that it ended this way. When he was at his best, he was one of the best in the game.

Yep, he was lights out in 2006. It just isn't remembered that way because the overall team wasn't that good and they Bungled' their way out of a gimme playoff spot against Denver.

But it should also be noted how talented the 2005 team was. The O-Line was probably the best in the league with Levi Jones, Willie Anderson, Eric Steinbach, and Rich Braham. Had a solid running game with Rudi Johnson and a 3 headed monster at WR with CJ, TJ, and Chris Henry. Add to that an opportunistic defense, that was the year, if ever, they would have advanced far in the playoffs (Still think they would have lost to the Colts though).

Amazing how much can change in 5 years in the NFL though.

[Stray]

I don't want to get too far ahead or overly excited but looking at their schedule they could get off to a huge start should the offense and defense continue to improve. I was not excited for this season to begin considering how the offseason transpired. The first two preseason games worried me as well. However I saw a lot of good things in the last two preseason games from the starters on both sides of the ball that gave me hope.

After game one, the hope is a bit stronger especially when I consider all of the young, unproven talent this team possess.

Here's the first eight games ...

W1 @ Cleveland (Won 27-17)
W2 @ Denver
W3 vs SF
W4 vs Buffalo
W5 @ Jacksonville
W6 vs Indy
W7 BYE
W8 @ Seattle
W9 @ Tennessee

As of today, Buffalo would appear to be their toughest opponent. However with a rookie QB you never know what you will get from game to game but my fingers are crossed.

Wow I knew we had an easy schedule but I hadn't looked at it yet.

[Hoosier Red]

Wow I knew we had an easy schedule but I hadn't looked at it yet.

I think it was Doc who wrote that the only teams on the schedule who had a winning record last year are Pitt, Bal, and Indy.