I'm coming out of the closet...

[traderumor]

You are the root of all that is wrong with the world today. Browns fans love their team win or lose, we have pride in who we are and do not need a couple winning seasons in a row to fill our stadium. Seems pretty easy to just pack up and move to a team thats winning now, but what do you do when the Bengals hang another 19-61 streak and theres no fans around to watch the game with, we won't want you back but Im sure Art and the boys in Baltimore would love to have ya. Living in Dayton I get to see it all first hand. Two years ago I could got to any bar in town, and find more lions jerseys than bengals, toss in a few wins and they are all over the place but your not fooling me, snip the price tags off and ask the bandwagon driver to let you off at the next stop because you wanna be a real fan. I dont dislike bengal fans, but the lack of passion makes it very hard to respect them. The life of a browns fan is a rough one but Ill never quit on them, just like they will never quit on me. As far as Im concerned you can root for whoever you like, but please NEVER root for the browns again, we don't need the negativity.

Sounds like the same diatribe you would hear from a Cubs fan. And I sure did see an awful lot of empty seats at Browns Stadium in the second half last season from all of those diehards, and all of these loyal fans can't seem to cause the CBS affiliate in Columbus, who will show the team that will bring in the highest ratings, to show the Browns when they play at the same time as the Bengals.

And they did quit on you. They put their stuff in a truck and drove down the interstate. In a weak moment, the NFL couldn't leave well enough alone.

[5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM]

Hang out with me on a Sunday afternoon, or engage me in conversation about the Bengals any day of the week, then tell me I don't have passion.

You can't make a statement that fits everyone in a selected group, all I can do is report what i see, like ccr said believe half of what you see and none of what you hear, i've seen the lack of passion but it doesn't mean theres not a few of you out there. I commend you for standing up on this, I posted this yesterday and your the only one to comment on it. Now how passionate is that.

[traderumor]

You can't make a statement that fits everyone in a selected group, all I can do is report what i see, like ccr said believe half of what you see and none of what you hear, i've seen the lack of passion but it doesn't mean theres not a few of you out there. I commend you for standing up on this, I posted this yesterday and your the only one to comment on it. Now how passionate is that.

Nor can you make such a statement. I just saw this 5 minutes ago. Notice I had a response.

[Falls City Beer]

You can't make a statement that fits everyone in a selected group, all I can do is report what i see, like ccr said believe half of what you see and none of what you hear, i've seen the lack of passion but it doesn't mean theres not a few of you out there. I commend you for standing up on this, I posted this yesterday and your the only one to comment on it. Now how passionate is that.

Think about what you're saying for a minute. You're railing about faithlessness on a bleepin' REDS' MESSAGE BOARD!!!!

Come on, dude, you're not going to find more long-suffering and embarrassed fans than people who are sticking with the Reds through Marge, Bowden, Bob Boone, Narron, O'Brien, Miley, Lindner, Allen, Jimmy Haynes, Eric Milton....shall I continue?

If being a Reds' fan doesn't test your mettle, then absolutely NOTHING does.

So spare every person on this board your righteous indignation, because we're lower than a snake's ass in a wagon trail, each and every one of us.

[GAC]

You are the root of all that is wrong with the world today. Browns fans love their team win or lose, we have pride in who we are and do not need a couple winning seasons in a row to fill our stadium. Seems pretty easy to just pack up and move to a team thats winning now, but what do you do when the Bengals hang another 19-61 streak and theres no fans around to watch the game with, we won't want you back but Im sure Art and the boys in Baltimore would love to have ya. Living in Dayton I get to see it all first hand. Two years ago I could got to any bar in town, and find more lions jerseys than bengals, toss in a few wins and they are all over the place but your not fooling me, snip the price tags off and ask the bandwagon driver to let you off at the next stop because you wanna be a real fan. I dont dislike bengal fans, but the lack of passion makes it very hard to respect them. The life of a browns fan is a rough one but Ill never quit on them, just like they will never quit on me. As far as Im concerned you can root for whoever you like, but please NEVER root for the browns again, we don't need the negativity.

And there you go. My sentiment exactly.

I work with a guy who is a die-hard Bengals fan. He has lived and breathed the Bengals since I've known him, meaning through the very dismal and depressing 90's. Regardless, this guy came into work every night wearing his Bengals jacket and hat with pride. And I admired and respected him, while others mocked him, because he was very true to his team when many others, who during those dreadful times, wouldn't be caught dead wearing Bengal colors or confessing any allegiance.

But now that the Bengals have turned it around.. and I'm glad they have bevcause I enjoy watching them too even though I am a Browns fan... some of those same people are now walking around with Bengal hats on.

My point is simply this.... you stand by your team, regardless of who it is, through thick and thin.

And if it's simply about being associated with a winner, then why are we all Red fans?

P.S. The Browns played one heck of a game today vs the Jets. I was actually impressed with the way the offense was ran under their new Offensive Coordinator. Droughns had a great day, and they mixed it up well with their receivers. But the O-line was actually performing much better. It was good to see because they do have some playmakers on this team.

[traderumor]

GAC,

I didn't understand why the play was not reviewed on the catch there at the end. I caught it after the fact while they were discussing it. Looked to me like it was highly suspect that it was not reviewed. I also noticed that it was the crew that screwed the Bengals against the Bucaneers. Was that play reviewed, and if not, why not? Looked like it easily could have been ruled a catch based on the defender taking him out of bounds when he would have otherwise come down inbounds were it not for the hit.

[GAC]

Yeah, Browns fans root for their team win or lose. That's why I see ads on TV for Browns single game tickets available through Ticketmaster. Browns fans are like anyone else. They show up when the team does well and when it doesn't

You can get those tickets via Ticket master, and many other venues, for any sporting event. It doesn't indicate a attendance problem. And you'll pay premium dollar to get them too. I'm sorry Yachtzee, but you're wrong there. They still sell out every home game, and have been. One thing the Browns have never had is an attendance problem. Even when they suck.

I don't doubt that you are a huge Browns fan, but don't try to pass of Browns fans as a whole as somehow better than the fans of other teams. They aren't.

I didn't get the impression he was stating that. He was basically "calling out" sava for abandoning his team, whom he has followed for many years, and now becoming a Bengals fan why?.... because they are now winning and the Browns are losing?

Hypothetically...Would it be any different if a Bengals fan, fed up with the losing, came on here and decided they were going to become a Steeler fan simply because they were tired of the losing and want to be associated with a winner?

Where is one's loyalty?

[GAC]

And they did quit on you.

That's a untrue statement, and you know it tr.

Art Modell quit on us, and screwed over very loyal fans. It had nothing to do with lack of support for the team by the city and fans, but a spolied owner not getting his way by trying to blackmail the city.

They put their stuff in a truck and drove down the interstate. In a weak moment, the NFL couldn't leave well enough alone.

It had nothing to do with a weak moment tr. The reason why they put a team back in Cleveland... and there were several reasons... was because next to the 49ers, the Browns had the #2 market in all of NFL. And that is a fact.

Do a little research on the Brown Backers fan organization worldwide, and tell me how many other NFL teams have such backing.

[traderumor]

I think one of the few places there is still loyalty is in one's sports teams. But I don't think there is any man law yet that says one cannot jump a sinking ship and jump on board with an organization headed in the right direction. Now, if Sava liked the Steelers this year, and the Patriots in 2004 and 2005, and the Buccaneers after the 2003 season, then I might hear what you're saying

[traderumor]

That's a untrue statement, and you know it tr.

Art Modell quit on us, and screwed over very loyal fans. It had nothing to do with lack of support for the team by the city and fans, but a spolied owner not getting his way by trying to blackmail the city.



It had nothing to do with a weak moment tr. The reason why they put a team back in Cleveland... and there were several reasons... was because next to the 49ers, the Browns had the #2 market in all of NFL. And that is a fact.

Do a little research on the Brown Backers fan organization worldwide, and tell me how many other NFL teams have such backing.

Now I know why my dad (the one who was a Bengals fan before me, and a former Browns fan until the Bengals came into existence) had such bitterness towards Browns fans that he worked with at the plant

[Yachtzee]

You can get those tickets via Ticket master, and many other venues, for any sporting event. It doesn't indicate a attendance problem. And you'll pay premium dollar to get them too. I'm sorry Yachtzee, but you're wrong there. They still sell out every home game, and have been. One thing the Browns have never had is an attendance problem. Even when they suck.



I didn't get the impression he was stating that. He was basically "calling out" sava for abandoning his team, whom he has followed for many years, and now becoming a Bengals fan why?.... because they are now winning and the Browns are losing?

Hypothetically...Would it be any different if a Bengals fan, fed up with the losing, came on here and decided they were going to become a Steeler fan simply because they were tired of the losing and want to be associated with a winner?

Where is one's loyalty?

Actually, you cannot buy single game tickets for a lot of teams through Ticketmaster because the stadium is sold out to season ticket holders. For teams like the Packers and Redskins, the waiting list for tickets is decades long. The Browns haven't even sold their tickets out to season ticket holders and, believe it or not, I've been to a number of Browns games in the past 3-4 years where there were at least 10,000 dressed as empty seats, even though the games were listed as sell-outs.

As far as OLD RIGHTHANDER's post goes, while it was initially addressed to savafan, he made a lot of sweeping statements about Bengals fans that were unwarranted. If anything I think Browns fans and Bengals fans should be able to understand where the other is coming from. We've all had to deal with abysmal teams run into the ground by an owner whose own ego seemed to stand in the way of success.

To be honest with you, for all the Browns and Bengals games I've been to, I've seen plenty of so-called "true fans" that I'd rather not be associated with, and I know my good friend the Browns season ticket holder feels the same way about many Browns fans. He was never more embarrassed in his life being associated with other Browns fans than after the bottle-throwing game. And of course the Bengals had to institute the "Jerk Line" for a reason.

[OldRightHander]

You are the root of all that is wrong with the world today. Browns fans love their team win or lose, we have pride in who we are and do not need a couple winning seasons in a row to fill our stadium. Seems pretty easy to just pack up and move to a team thats winning now, but what do you do when the Bengals hang another 19-61 streak and theres no fans around to watch the game with, we won't want you back but Im sure Art and the boys in Baltimore would love to have ya. Living in Dayton I get to see it all first hand. Two years ago I could got to any bar in town, and find more lions jerseys than bengals, toss in a few wins and they are all over the place but your not fooling me, snip the price tags off and ask the bandwagon driver to let you off at the next stop because you wanna be a real fan. I dont dislike bengal fans, but the lack of passion makes it very hard to respect them. The life of a browns fan is a rough one but Ill never quit on them, just like they will never quit on me. As far as Im concerned you can root for whoever you like, but please NEVER root for the browns again, we don't need the negativity.

Using my name and typing a post like that.



I'm with you regarding bandwagon fans, but that could have been a wee bit more cordial.

[traderumor]

Using my name and typing a post like that.



I'm with you regarding bandwagon fans, but that could have been a wee bit more cordial.

I wondered what had happened to ORH's tact.

[5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM]

Sounds like the same diatribe you would hear from a Cubs fan. And I sure did see an awful lot of empty seats at Browns Stadium in the second half last season from all of those diehards, and all of these loyal fans can't seem to cause the CBS affiliate in Columbus, who will show the team that will bring in the highest ratings, to show the Browns when they play at the same time as the Bengals.

And they did quit on you. They put their stuff in a truck and drove down the interstate. In a weak moment, the NFL couldn't leave well enough alone.

Art Modell quit on us not the team, and you better hope it never happens to your team here in cinci, remember this:
Hamilton County Commissioner Todd Portune sued the Bengals and the National Football League on Friday, claiming the league violated federal antitrust laws when it "extorted" more than $450 million from taxpayers to build Paul Brown Stadium. To get their way, Portune claims, the teams threatened to move to cities willing to build new stadiums. Sounds familiar and im glad it never happened, I like having two Ohio teams, it makes for more excitment in the season. As for empty seats check out these numbers
Cleveland Browns
Overall support rank of 32 teams: 1
Average attendance: 72,868 (63,808)
Percent of capacity: 99.8% (94.7%)
Attendance fluctuation: 0.8 points (12.7 points)
Cincinnati Bengals
Overall support rank of 32 teams: 27
Average attendance: 56,796 (63,808)
Percent of capacity: 89.4% (94.7%)
Attendance fluctuation: 20.9 points (12.7 points)
As far as showing the games on tv goes thats all regional coverage, Dayton and cin. get the bengals along with Columbus, but most towns north of Darke county get the Browns games, so im not sure I get your point there. Those things are up to the Nfl coverage policies. Theres no fan census that im aware of but i would guess that there are just as many browns fans in the columbus area as there are bengal fans, and being that it is a closer drive to go to the game wouldn't the tv ratings on the browns game be atleast equal in this area if not better?

[traderumor]

As far as showing the games on tv goes thats all regional coverage, Dayton and cin. get the bengals along with Columbus, but most towns north of Darke county get the Browns games, so im not sure I get your point there. Those things are up to the Nfl coverage policies. Theres no fan census that im aware of but i would guess that there are just as many browns fans in the columbus area as there are bengal fans, and being that it is a closer drive to go to the game wouldn't the tv ratings on the browns game be atleast equal in this area if not better?

Not exactly. WBNS 10-TV has a very good explanation of why they air the games they air, and basically in their market it comes down to ratings between the Bengals and Browns. That being the case, it hardly seems that the "real" fans are Browns fans when they cannot overcome the Bengals popularity in a divided market. Regardless, this is all kind of a nonsensical discussion because it presupposes that following a crappy franchise through thick and thin earns someone a badge of honor, which it doesn't. As FCB said above, we're Reds fans for goodness' sakes, we are surely in line for some kind of loyalty medal these days.