Trade Targets and Trade Rumors

[RedlegJake]

1. Cozart may actually force Billy into centerfield. Look at Cozart's numbers - if he DOES hit 20 homers and 40 doubles in his rookie season and next year improves his OBP and keeps his SP close to where it is I'd think they'd keep Cozart and move Billy to CF to be able to have both. Why lose either one? And have Gregorious as a backup? Sheesh You're talking riches there.

2. I think the Reds value Billy more than most here must think with all the talk of Billy in trades. I think it would take an incredible blockbuster to get them to trade him. Straight up for Upton kind of blockbuster. And they'd probably ask Arizona to include some cash!
The Reds, from all I've read, are as high on Billy as any player in the last 20 years including Bruce...

3. Walt has made 2 deadline trades in 10 years. That was in the Enquirer. I was surprised. Seemed to remember more but that's what they had printed. One of the lowest traders at the deadline. Maybe he WILL sit on his hands.

[PuffyPig]

There's also no reason to wait for the deadline.

A possible reason may the reluctance of the seller to deal before the deadline.

The cost of aquiring players today is higher than at the deadline.

You have to convince the seller that there isn't going to be a better deal by waiting. Basically blow their socks off.

[REDREAD]

3. Walt has made 2 deadline trades in 10 years. That was in the Enquirer..

That's misleading by the Enquirer though.
For example, he picked up Larry Walker on Aug 7. Technically not a trade deadline deal, but a huge pickup to reinforce the team for the stretch run.

[RedEye]

The Reds, from all I've read, are as high on Billy as any player in the last 20 years including Bruce...

What are you reading? I've read everything I can get my hands on and, while he's doubtless a very good prospect, he's nowhere near a Bruce, who was the #1 overall prospect in the minors by the end of his tenure. Speed is great to have, but it doesn't ensure he's going to be able to do much with the bat in the show. He also seems to be a bit rough defensively at this stage -- whereas Bruce was a polished RF by the time he came up, IIRC.

[RedlegJake]

What are you reading? I've read everything I can get my hands on and, while he's doubtless a very good prospect, he's nowhere near a Bruce, who was the #1 overall prospect in the minors by the end of his tenure. Speed is great to have, but it doesn't ensure he's going to be able to do much with the bat in the show. He also seems to be a bit rough defensively at this stage -- whereas Bruce was a polished RF by the time he came up, IIRC.

I'm not talking about their outlook on his ceiling I'm talking about their excitement and his untouchability - his "butt-in-the-seat" factor makes him a managerial diamond

[RedlegJake]

That's misleading by the Enquirer though.
For example, he picked up Larry Walker on Aug 7. Technically not a trade deadline deal, but a huge pickup to reinforce the team for the stretch run.

That's true - the Enquirer dates were June through July 31st

[RedEye]

I'm not talking about their outlook on his ceiling I'm talking about their excitement and his untouchability - his "butt-in-the-seat" factor makes him a managerial diamond

I guess so. But if the so-called "butt-in-the-seat" factor is what is driving their estimation of his value, then they are deluding themselves.

I really doubt Billy Hamilton is untouchable. In the right deal, I would expect almost anyone can be had probably -- other than maybe Votto.

[Revering4Blue]

That's true - the Enquirer dates were June through July 31st

What about landing Mark McGwire and the 2002 version of Scott Rolen for peanuts? Also,Jeff Weaver and Ronnie Belliard contributed in the 2006 playoffs.

The Cardinals farm system at the time all were acquired was considered "barren" and too devoid of talent to acquire any player of significance, but WJ got it done.

Sure, WJ has his faults, but the fact that he was able to continually supplement his big league roster utilizing what was perceived as a much weaker farm system than today's Reds farm system tells me that he should be able to acquire this team some help at the deadline.

[camisadelgolf]

The only way the Reds trade Hamilton is if they obtain Upton imo. Who else is supposedly available that could possibly be worth it? I'd say Greinke or Hamels, but they're almost definitely rentals.

[corkedbat]

I guess so. But if the so-called "butt-in-the-seat" factor is what is driving their estimation of his value, then they are deluding themselves.

I really doubt Billy Hamilton is untouchable. In the right deal, I would expect almost anyone can be had probably -- other than maybe Votto.

Not saying that there's no deal the reds wouold make that included Billy, but if there is hewould reduce the number of bodies the Reds would have to include by one if not two. I'd demand Willing ham for he an Corcino or Cingrani and have to think twice about doing it (and Willingham is number one on my list). I wouldn't offer much (if anything) more for Upton.

[RedEye]

Not saying that there's no deal the reds wouold make that included Billy, but if there is hewould reduce the number of bodies the Reds would have to include by one if not two. I'd demand Willing ham for he an Corcino or Cingrani and have to think twice about doing it (and Willingham is number one on my list). I wouldn't offer much (if anything) more for Upton.

Yes, I would think that if Billy were part of a deal, he would sweeten it more than, say, a handful of B-level prospects.

No idea why you would want Willingham over Upton. He is older and less productive IMO. I guess he's a bit cheaper -- at least in the next two years.

[SidneySlicker]

The Reds have their first legitimate mlb lead-off guy in their system since who knows when, and people have even an ounce of thought of trading the guy? There is no way that Hamilton is touchable, and I don't care who they might get unless it's a stellar proven lead-off hitter.

[WVRedsFan]

The Reds have their first legitimate mlb lead-off guy in their system since who knows when, and people have even an ounce of thought of trading the guy? There is no way that Hamilton is touchable, and I don't care who they might get unless it's a stellar proven lead-off hitter.

AMEN!!!!!

[corkedbat]

The Reds have their first legitimate mlb lead-off guy in their system since who knows when, and people have even an ounce of thought of trading the guy? There is no way that Hamilton is touchable, and I don't care who they might get unless it's a stellar proven lead-off hitter.

I would hate to have to give up Hamilton for anybody, but the more I think about it, the more I think I would have to really consider it for Josh Willingham.

Willingham is a solid consistent performer and would be an excellent fit between Votto and Bruce. I think those three in the meat of the order would stack the Reds up well against anyone in the NL and make them true World Series contenders.

He's due $3.5M the remainder of his season and $7Meach of the next two years. While he may not have the terrific upside of a Justin Upton, I believe he's more consistent and would be cheaper. If salary is tight this year, I'd ask the Twinks to pitch in $1.75 this year and use the saving from not resigning Rolen and re-ngotiating with Madson to offset the cost. I like the rotation, the bullpen and a lot of the younger guys coming along through the system. A proven major league bat for the middle of the order is the one thing I don't see in the system the next couple of year's and, IMO, it may be the hardest to find. Willingham can fit the bill and if he produces as he has, S7M would be a bargain.

As exciting as Billy is, he's still year or two away and as good as he's been this season, he's not a proven major league guy and I want to win now. I go to the Twinks and I offer Billy and a young starter for Josh. I start with Sulbaran or Lotzkar, but I am willing to up it to Cingrani or Corcino if that's what it takes. I'm also willing to expand it if Minny will include Spann. I'd talk guys like Heisey, Bray, Ondrsek, LaMarre, Soto and others (i'd include Heisey with Hamilton and Lotkar or Sulbaran for Willingham if that would get the deal done.

CF Drew Stubbs/Denard Spann or Dexter Fowler
2B Brandon Phillips
1B Joey Votto
LF Josh Willingham
RF Jay Bruce
3B Todd Frazier
CA Ryan Hanigan/Devin Mesaraco
SS Zach Cozart

It's giving up a lot, but I think that lineup could win a lot of games the next 2 1/2 seasons. If they can't agree on Spann, I'd go all-out to try and talk the Rox out of Fowler. If your'e going to give up a guy like Billy you need to do everything you can to make it worthwhile.

[Nathan]

Trading Billy Hamilton straight up for Josh Willingham would be a huge steal for the Twins. I like Willingham quite a bit, but, I'm sure he can be had for less than Hamilton. If not, pass.