Chip R (03-13-2013)
I'm not sure that proves the closers don't matter point necessarily. Looking at league wide averages in different eras won't show you the difference between teams with a good closer and teams without once it became a more dominant role.
What "could" prove it more conclusively is to measure the win % after 8 innings for a team that used the closer and the league average. Maybe the win % of the 89-92 A's who used Eckersley in the manner of the current closer before it was widespread league wide.
I think it's an important point too that while pretty much the league averages .97%, if a good closer means you're at 98% and a poor closer means you're at 96%, then isn't a good closer worth roughly 3 wins?
David Weathers saved 85% in 2007. Cordero averaged 86% as a Red. Chapman closed at 88% last year, 83% in short Red's career. While Chapman is certainly more impressive in his saves, the end result isn't much different across the league through the years regardless of "closer" role and the evolution of bullpens. By all means I am not trying to compare Weathers to Chapman. I am just one of the fans in the "Chapman for starter" camp and was just trying to echo Joe's point on the glorification of the "closer" title.
"Are you trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?!"
*BaseClogger* (03-14-2013)
I have a feeling that the win percentage would have been drastically different if there were no such thing as closers in the steroid era. The trend now might be going back to that pre-steroid era now that offense is starting to normalize. However, I don't know if looking purely at win percentage does the debate justice. There are too many other factors involved.
*BaseClogger* (03-14-2013),AtomicDumpling (03-14-2013),OGB (03-13-2013)
Mariano Rivera in 2011 in 2 or 1 run games with the Yankees in the lead (when he entered): 30 saves, 5 blown saves for an 86% SV rate in those games.
David Weathers in 2007 in 2 or 1 run games with the Reds in the lead (when he entered): 25 saves, 4 blown saves for an 86% SV rate in those games.
Aroldis Champan in 2012 in 2 or 1 run games with the Reds in the lead (when he entered): 27 saves, 4 blown saves for an 87% SV rate in those games.
Last edited by dougdirt; 03-13-2013 at 06:08 PM.
*BaseClogger* (03-14-2013),thatcoolguy_22 (03-15-2013),The Operator (03-13-2013),wheels (03-13-2013)
I don't think it's fair to cherry pick individual seasons to support that argument. Using 31.67 games (average of the three) is an incredibly small sample size. Looking at those numbers, one could assume that Weathers was equal to Rivera, and we all know that is not the case.
Award Winning Baseball Player
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |