Reds Acquire Jonathan Broxton

[REDREAD]

I could make a case that he isn't better than LeCure, Simon or Arredondo just as easily as you could make the case that he is.

Ok Doug.. let's say for the sake of argument that Broxton is roughly equal or slightly inferior to all 3 of those guys.

Bray just went on the DL. That's a spot that needs to be filled.
Ondrusek has struggled, that's a role that needs upgrading.

That's two slots that Broxton is a clear upgrade over.

[westofyou]

Nickname??

Broxton needs to get with Frisch's asap.

[jojo]

3. data showing clearly that Broxton's fastball has increased in velocity by each month. Backed up by fact ......... not debatable.

This just isn't correct.

It's notable to me that the Reds bullpen has guys with good K rates but Broxton's e.r.a. is lower than them. Then there's Johnny Cueto with a similar K rate to Broxton. Cueto has lead the NL for most of the season in starter e.r.a. I don't see anyone questioning Johnny or saying he can't sustain it. And he doesn't thrive on missing bats. He just knows how to induce ground balls, keep hitters off balance, and rely on his defense mostly.

Cueto this season has a GB% that is largely just a tick greater than average (Cueto: 47.7%, ave: 45.4%) this season which doesn't fit the narrative that he's been trying to induce GB.

[traderumor]

He's going to have to play power forward. Already enough post players on the staff.

Also, the suspenders are a good idea for his uniform.

[M2]

Also, the suspenders are a good idea for his uniform.

Or perhaps scaffolding.

[Benihana]

FWIW, Kevin Goldstein ranked the 41 prospects that were traded in the last month.

Joseph ranked 10 and Sulbaran ranked 18. Todd Redmond was 38.

Sounds about right to me- nothing to get too worked up over either way. I think one of the reasons it always seems like we overpay is that the people who say that follow these prospects very closely. What appears to be minor league fodder or C-level prospects to the casual fan (or fans of other teams) frequently get mistaken for very good prospects by Redszoners who have followed a lot of these guys since the day they were drafted.

The fact of the matter is that neither Donnie Joseph or JC Sulbaran were top 5 pitching prospects in the Reds organization, an organization that is not one of the 5 strongest in the game in terms of high-end talent or depth. Trading those two for a big league contributor with playoff experience when you are (hopefully) a playoff-bound team is not something to get too worked up about.

Same thing we saw six months ago with guys like Sappelt and Torreyes.

[dougdirt]

Ok Doug.. let's say for the sake of argument that Broxton is roughly equal or slightly inferior to all 3 of those guys.

Bray just went on the DL. That's a spot that needs to be filled.
Ondrusek has struggled, that's a role that needs upgrading.

That's two slots that Broxton is a clear upgrade over.

So would JJ Hoover, who we already have. We made a lateral move in my opinion because the Reds don't trust young players and would rather have mediocre "name" guys. Sure, Broxton throws hard, but his fastball isn't the problem, it is that he doesn't have an out pitch. His slider used to be among the best in baseball, now it is average at best.

[Tom Servo]

We are definitely going to win any bench clearing brawls.

[Benihana]

We are definitely going to win any bench clearing brawls.

We needed someone who could strike physical fear into the hearts of opponents ever since Jonny Gomes left town.

[Benihana]

So would JJ Hoover, who we already have. We made a lateral move in my opinion because the Reds don't trust young players and would rather have mediocre "name" guys. Sure, Broxton throws hard, but his fastball isn't the problem, it is that he doesn't have an out pitch. His slider used to be among the best in baseball, now it is average at best.

For the stretch run, I'm fine with that. For the long term I'm not.

We saw what happened in 2010 when a bunch of young guys with no postseason experience got to the playoffs- they choked.

For the long run, there isn't much to indicate that the Reds don't trust younger players. Zack Cozart is still the starting SS. Jay Bruce is still the starting RF. Aroldis Chapman is still the closer. Devin Mesoraco still gets plenty of playing time. I'd be surprised if JJ Hoover isn't on the team next season, as he should be. For now, it's not a bad thing to add a veteran with 13 postseason appearances to a pitching staff that may have less than that combined.

[dougdirt]

For the stretch run, I'm fine with that. For the long term I'm not.

We saw what happened in 2010 when a bunch of young guys with no postseason experience got to the playoffs- they choked.

For the long run, there isn't much to indicate that the Reds don't trust younger players. Zack Cozart is still the starting SS. Jay Bruce is still the starting RF. Aroldis Chapman is still the closer. Devin Mesoraco still gets plenty of playing time. I'd be surprised if JJ Hoover isn't on the team next season, as he should be. For now, it's not a bad thing to add a veteran with 13 postseason appearances to a pitching staff that may have less than that combined.

Maybe they didn't choke. Maybe they just had to face Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, three aces.

[Benihana]

Maybe they didn't choke. Maybe they just had to face Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, three aces.

No, I watched that series. They choked.

There were an unbelievable amount of mental blocks, baserunning mistakes, and errors- in Game 2 especially.

What's happening here IMO is losing the forest for the trees. Concentrating on the physics of a Jonathan Broxton pitch is distracting you from seeing that this pitching staff has almost zero playoff experience. I think you (and others) are underestimating what that means.

It's why academics and whiteboard analysis don't always work perfectly in the real world. No matter how smart or talented someone may be, sometimes there is no substitute for experience.

[RichRed]

However, Broxton needs a nickname.

The Brox Bomber

Too "on the nose?"

[dsmith421]

Maybe they didn't choke. Maybe they just had to face Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, three aces.

They didn't face Lee, and they most certainly choked away Game 2. But in fairness to the young players, there were also serious mental and physical mistakes by veterans (including a rare error by Rolen) that contributed to the meltdown.

[VR]

Maybe they didn't choke. Maybe they just had to face Cole Hamels, Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee, three aces.

Cardinals didn't seem to intimidated last year.