Head to Head, It's No Contest

[CentralKYRedfan]

This is the easiest thing in the world to write after taking two straight beatings, but it really is a fact that, head-to-head, the Cardinals own the Reds. There is simply no way the Reds can beat the trio of Carpenter, Garcia & Wainright. Add in the fact that the Cardinals have more experience and (in my opinion) more offensive talent, and there is little wonder why the Cardinals beat the Reds an average of 2 out of every 3.

To make matters worse, Phillips little tirade was completely uncalled for, childish, and was simply asking for trouble. Just shut up and play the game.

[cincyforever]

I agree. I am not cliff jumping but if we are relying on Cueto or Arroyo to get us a win against the Cardinals, it tell you Cincy doesn't have an ace; it tells you Cincy doesn't have a "go to guy" and if Arroyo is that guy, then.. I'm sorry.

Cincy can beat up on Houston, Chicago and Pittsburgh all they want but other than the Braves series last week, this team hasn't shown anything promising. If Cincy gets into the postseason, what happens when they draw LA, SD, STL, ATL or PHI? They are bounced in the first round.

Jocketty should have made a move, now it is biting them. Base hit away from sweeping the Braves, and they strikeout. Could have been an added bat in the lineup, there. The pitching on this team is too inconsistent to make a postseason run.

Again, no cliff jumping here, just stating what I see, here.....

[will5979]

I agree. I am not cliff jumping but if we are relying on Cueto or Arroyo to get us a win against the Cardinals, it tell you Cincy doesn't have an ace; it tells you Cincy doesn't have a "go to guy" and if Arroyo is that guy, then.. I'm sorry.

Cincy can beat up on Houston, Chicago and Pittsburgh all they want but other than the Braves series last week, this team hasn't shown anything promising. If Cincy gets into the postseason, what happens when they draw LA, SD, STL, ATL or PHI? They are bounced in the first round.

Jocketty should have made a move, now it is biting them. Base hit away from sweeping the Braves, and they strikeout. Could have been an added bat in the lineup, there. The pitching on this team is too inconsistent to make a postseason run.

Again, no cliff jumping here, just stating what I see, here.....

Agreed, why just settle to make the postseason when you could actually win? It makes no sense to me whatsoever that the Reds did not add a bat to lineup at the deadline.

[Magdal]

Agreed, why just settle to make the postseason when you could actually win? It makes no sense to me whatsoever that the Reds did not add a bat to lineup at the deadline.

Add a bat? Add a bat to the highest scoring team in the NL? No, that's bull. Add an arm? No again. This is a dam good rotation, better that the Cards.

The team is just new to winning. The defensive meltdown and weak hitting after the brawl shows that clearly. On paper the Reds are the best team in the Central. I just don't think they know it yet. At some point they will.

[MikeThierry]

Add a bat? Add a bat to the highest scoring team in the NL? No, that's bull. Add an arm? No again. This is a dam good rotation, better that the Cards.

The team is just new to winning. The defensive meltdown and weak hitting after the brawl shows that clearly. On paper the Reds are the best team in the Central. I just don't think they know it yet. At some point they will.

I wouldn't argue that 1-5, the Reds have a better rotation now. I would have disagreed earlier with you if Penny wasn't injured but as it stands right now, you are right (though I'm loving what I'm seeing from Westbrooke since the Cards got him so that is a wild card).

That said, I think this series emphasizes why every team who makes the playoffs needs a legit, lock down, no hold bar Ace on their staff. In a 5 or 7 game series, having a good rotation will not work. You need guys that you expect to throw no hit stuff. I expect on a nightly basis for Carpenter and Waino to completely shut down the competition. I don't know if you can say that about the starters on the Reds.

This is one of the reasons why I think San Diego will have a tough time in the playoffs. Matt Latos is a stud but the rest of the rotation is filled with good pitchers. However those good pitchers will be matched up against other Aces from other teams.

Also, saying the Reds are the best team on paper is arguable. I think they are about even when you consider both teams strengths and weaknesses.

[Magdal]

I wouldn't argue that 1-5, the Reds have a better rotation now. I would have disagreed earlier with you if Penny wasn't injured but as it stands right now, you are right (though I'm loving what I'm seeing from Westbrooke since the Cards got him so that is a wild card).

That said, I think this series emphasizes why every team who makes the playoffs needs a legit, lock down, no hold bar Ace on their staff. In a 5 or 7 game series, having a good rotation will not work. You need guys that you expect to throw no hit stuff. I expect on a nightly basis for Carpenter and Waino to completely shut down the competition. I don't know if you can say that about the starters on the Reds.

This is one of the reasons why I think San Diego will have a tough time in the playoffs. Matt Latos is a stud but the rest of the rotation is filled with good pitchers. However those good pitchers will be matched up against other Aces from other teams.

Also, saying the Reds are the best team on paper is arguable. I think they are about even when you consider both teams strengths and weaknesses.

Dam good post Mike, but the Card infield leads the galaxy in errors and men caught between bases/base stealing. That is 2 5ths of the game. The Reds ARE in fact the better team. At the risk of alianating everyone here on RZ I will say this: Baker is not a good manager. There is about 20 managers in the game that would DIE to have this team.

And I don't think much of Walt trying to make the team Cardinals East.

[GIDP]

Reds were 9-6 against the Cardinals in 2006. Clearly the Reds were the better team that year.

[sivman17]

FWIW, the Reds haven't fared too well against division leaders:

vs. ATL: 2-3
vs. SD: 1-2
vs. STL: 5-9

It's a relatively small sample size, except for the STL series, but playoff series are small sample sizes as well. Hopefully they learn how to beat good teams.

[mrherd05]

They can own us all the want. Fact is, the way a baseball schedule is made, they can beat us all 18 or 19 times they play us. And we can still go to the playoffs and their sorry butts can stay home.

[tobttr]

Add a bat? Add a bat to the highest scoring team in the NL? No, that's bull. Add an arm? No again. This is a dam good rotation, better that the Cards.

The team is just new to winning. The defensive meltdown and weak hitting after the brawl shows that clearly. On paper the Reds are the best team in the Central. I just don't think they know it yet. At some point they will.

A very, very good point about the Reds being new to winning. I know they have Rolen & Edmonds now, but a huge number of kids on this roster have had absolutely no postseason experience.
On the other hand, I don't honestly see the Reds rotation as being better than StL's. Not even close. I mean, who is the Reds' ace? Cueto? Arroyo? He would be the #4 starter in St. Looey.

[jfleur87]

Reds were 9-6 against the Cardinals in 2006. Clearly the Reds were the better team that year.

Well I'm encouraged by this. The Cardinals won the World Series this year, no?...Just saying, we don't have to beat the Cardinals to make the playoffs, we just need to beat everyone else, like we have been.

[redhat]

... why just settle to make the postseason when you could actually win?

The postseason is a crapshoot. Any team that gets in has a chance to win it all, even if they look as if they don't on paper.

For instance,
1985 Royals (well, they needed a little help from the first base ump)
1987 Twins (five teams in the AL East had better records)
1997 and 2003 Marlins
2006 Cards (won only 83 games in the regular season)
And, one could argue, the 1990 Reds.

Teams that make the playoffs know how to pitch to the best hitters. What you need to win are contributions from unexpected sources.

The Cards don't even make the WS in 2006 if not for:
Scott Spiezio tripling in two runs to tie Game 2 against the Mets.
So Taguchi homering off Billy Wager in the ninth inning of Game 2.
Yadier Molina hitting a ninth inning homer in win Game 7.

And who was the hitting star in the WS? David Eckstein.

[webbbj]

the reds have 3-4 pitchers that are capable of pitching like aces on any given night, but they dont do that consistently enough and most nights perform like #2 or #3 starters which is no shame. what it means is if this team gets hot at the right time they can beat anyone.

if i recall when the rockies made the WS they didnt have an ace and werent favored to get there but they got streaking at the right part in the schedule and won the NL. i believe they were below .500 in september and had a rediculous streak of winning 25/26 or something.

[Razzle]

And who was the hitting star in the WS? David Eckstein.

A tossup between Scott Rolen and Detroit's pitchers not being able to field bunts.

[Vottomatic]

Geez. We've sucked for how long now before this season? And the Cards have been the ones to beat for awhile now?

We're battling for first place after not even competing the last 10 years. It doesn't happen in just one season. We have a solid nucleus. We have tons of pitching. Cards have 3 great pitchers and very little else. Those 3 go down, they got nothing. Unlike the Reds who have plenty of options.

Poopholes goes down, Cards are mediocre. Reds have more depth than the Cards, to stay competitive.

Right now, everything is working for the Cardinals. Right now, Reds have hit an offensive and pitching slump after going gangbusters for weeks. It happens.

Padres and San Francisco are both better than the Cardinals. They're better than us too.

Even if we made it to the postseason, I said months ago that we'd be one of the weakere teams because you only need a couple of good pitchers to get it done. Padres and Giants have aces. We have #2's and #3's. Not going to get it done unless you're an offensive powerhouse. And our offense goes south against good pitching. And we have too many guys who fail to make contact and K alot.

I think this season took Jocketty and Castellini by surprise. I think they expected to be better, but not in first or second place. Now they can tweak the roster in the offseason with so many guys they can trade for needs. Let's see what they do.