Let's give Mike Leake some credit.

[Kc61]

Even if that is true, very few pitchers can sustain an ERA under 3.00 with such a low strikeout rate and most of the ones that have, played in huge ballparks. Maybe this is the real Mike Leake we are seeing from a stuff and control standpoint, but that doesn't mean the numbers are the real Mike Leake numbers.

Agree entirely, Leake's ERA is unusually low for a pitcher of his type and even if he maintains it for some time, it will eventually rise.

However, some posters seem to attribute Leake's good year to luck (not referring to DD), and with this I don't agree.

Fangraphs shows the pitch distribution for a given pitcher. Leake is using his change up and curve more, and is relying on his harder stuff (fastball and slider) less often. And hitters are swinging at more of his pitches outside the zone and hitting them less. His new mix of pitches seems to be more deceptive.

So he's not exactly the same pitcher. There have been adjustments that seem to be working.

[miamiredskin]

Hate to admit it, but I agree with Kaldaniels, TRF, RedEye, Caveat Emperor, and Reds 44. Leake's "success" is fool's gold.

Managers of good teams around the league laugh their heads off every time Leake shuts down a weak team. Because they know he is useless in the playoffs.

And they know the Reds will have to pay him more in the future to win meaningless games against hapless patsies. He's untradeable because every GM knows he doesn't have good enough stuff to succeed in the majors. Who's gonna trade for a #5 pitcher, when you can bring someone up from the minors to fill that slot at a fraction of the price?

The comparisons to Maddux are nauseating. They both throw/threw with the same arm. That's it. If the Reds had been smart and started him off in the minors, instead of rushing him into the bigs, he might have become another Maddux, but that ship has sailed. Pitching in the majors has ruined him. And Reds fans are paying the price.

[kaldaniels]

Hate to admit it, but I agree with Kaldaniels, TRF, RedEye, Caveat Emperor, and Reds 44. Leake's "success" is fool's gold.

Managers of good teams around the league laugh their heads off every time Leake shuts down a weak team. Because they know he is useless in the playoffs.

And they know the Reds will have to pay him more in the future to win meaningless games against hapless patsies. He's untradeable because every GM knows he doesn't have good enough stuff to succeed in the majors. Who's gonna trade for a #5 pitcher, when you can bring someone up from the minors to fill that slot at a fraction of the price?

The comparisons to Maddux are nauseating. They both throw/threw with the same arm. That's it. If the Reds had been smart and started him off in the minors, instead of rushing him into the bigs, he might have become another Maddux, but that ship has sailed. Pitching in the majors has ruined him. And Reds fans are paying the price.

^ Despite my name being mentioned, I am not on board with this.

[hebroncougar]

Hate to admit it, but I agree with Kaldaniels, TRF, RedEye, Caveat Emperor, and Reds 44. Leake's "success" is fool's gold.

Managers of good teams around the league laugh their heads off every time Leake shuts down a weak team. Because they know he is useless in the playoffs.

And they know the Reds will have to pay him more in the future to win meaningless games against hapless patsies. He's untradeable because every GM knows he doesn't have good enough stuff to succeed in the majors. Who's gonna trade for a #5 pitcher, when you can bring someone up from the minors to fill that slot at a fraction of the price?

The comparisons to Maddux are nauseating. They both throw/threw with the same arm. That's it. If the Reds had been smart and started him off in the minors, instead of rushing him into the bigs, he might have become another Maddux, but that ship has sailed. Pitching in the majors has ruined him. And Reds fans are paying the price.

Talk about nauseating......

Leake's current streak of tremendous pitching has been against Miami, NYM, CLE, PIT (2), STL, CHC, ARZ, TEX. That's three first place teams in there, and STL. Leake has shut down good and bad teams. His success has been great, and Reds fans should enjoy it. He's been one of the better pitchers in the league this year.

[reds1869]

Pitching in the majors has ruined him. And Reds fans are paying the price.

If we're paying the price, I'd like to pay the price more often. And with every pitching prospect in our system.

[Ironman92]

Hate to admit it, but I agree with Kaldaniels, TRF, RedEye, Caveat Emperor, and Reds 44. Leake's "success" is fool's gold.

Managers of good teams around the league laugh their heads off every time Leake shuts down a weak team. Because they know he is useless in the playoffs.

And they know the Reds will have to pay him more in the future to win meaningless games against hapless patsies. He's untradeable because every GM knows he doesn't have good enough stuff to succeed in the majors. Who's gonna trade for a #5 pitcher, when you can bring someone up from the minors to fill that slot at a fraction of the price?

The comparisons to Maddux are nauseating. They both throw/threw with the same arm. That's it. If the Reds had been smart and started him off in the minors, instead of rushing him into the bigs, he might have become another Maddux, but that ship has sailed. Pitching in the majors has ruined him. And Reds fans are paying the price.

Lol

[757690]

I had no idea the manager of the downtown Macy's posted here

[westofyou]

Bud Norris is rumored to be a target in trades

The thought that no one wants Leake because he sucks is hyperbole and nothing more

[Red in Chicago]

I had no idea the manager of the downtown Macy's posted here

that actually made me laugh out loud

[TOBTTReds]

Hate to admit it, but I agree with Kaldaniels, TRF, RedEye, Caveat Emperor, and Reds 44. Leake's "success" is fool's gold.

I'm going to assume no one you mentioned agrees with anything else you said in that post. Your imagination of other teams reactions when Leake wins is completely whack, especially because he is shutting down everyone right now.

[Tony Cloninger]

Hate to admit it, but I agree with Kaldaniels, TRF, RedEye, Caveat Emperor, and Reds 44. Leake's "success" is fool's gold.

Managers of good teams around the league laugh their heads off every time Leake shuts down a weak team. Because they know he is useless in the playoffs.

And they know the Reds will have to pay him more in the future to win meaningless games against hapless patsies. He's untradeable because every GM knows he doesn't have good enough stuff to succeed in the majors. Who's gonna trade for a #5 pitcher, when you can bring someone up from the minors to fill that slot at a fraction of the price?

The comparisons to Maddux are nauseating. They both throw/threw with the same arm. That's it. If the Reds had been smart and started him off in the minors, instead of rushing him into the bigs, he might have become another Maddux, but that ship has sailed. Pitching in the majors has ruined him. And Reds fans are paying the price.

Are you same poster who hates Votto...just because?

Pitching in the majors has actually helped him get better. He looks more and more like at least a #3.

[Brutus]

I don't understand the urge to point out how Leake isn't really a "2.50 ERA" type of pitcher. Frankly, I don't see anyone on this board that has said he is. No one has even said he's a No. 1-starter in terms of 'stuff.'

Pointing out his success doesn't mean one is accepting him as legitimately a sub-3 guy. It just means that he is, in fact pitching really well. Whether that production comes as 2.50 or 3.50 (which is indeed probably closer to where his talent lies), he's been a productive member of the rotation.

I was a broken record last year when people were castigating Leake that he was a good pitcher and was extremely unlucky. Sure, he might be a bit lucky this time around, but his true talent is probably closer to this than it was last year. We know he's got good control and we know he induces a lot of grounders. Guys that can do those things will have success more times than not.

[smixsell]

Hate to admit it, but I agree with Kaldaniels, TRF, RedEye, Caveat Emperor, and Reds 44. Leake's "success" is fool's gold.

Managers of good teams around the league laugh their heads off every time Leake shuts down a weak team. Because they know he is useless in the playoffs.

And they know the Reds will have to pay him more in the future to win meaningless games against hapless patsies. He's untradeable because every GM knows he doesn't have good enough stuff to succeed in the majors. Who's gonna trade for a #5 pitcher, when you can bring someone up from the minors to fill that slot at a fraction of the price?

The comparisons to Maddux are nauseating. They both throw/threw with the same arm. That's it. If the Reds had been smart and started him off in the minors, instead of rushing him into the bigs, he might have become another Maddux, but that ship has sailed. Pitching in the majors has ruined him. And Reds fans are paying the price.

Wow, What planet are you living on!?

We're paying the price alright! OWWWW! It hurts so bad I can't take it any more.

Wish we were "paying the price" on a few more of our pitchers, we might be in first place if we were

[Ironman92]

I don't understand the urge to point out how Leake isn't really a "2.50 ERA" type of pitcher. Frankly, I don't see anyone on this board that has said he is. No one has even said he's a No. 1-starter in terms of 'stuff.'

Pointing out his success doesn't mean one is accepting him as legitimately a sub-3 guy. It just means that he is, in fact pitching really well. Whether that production comes as 2.50 or 3.50 (which is indeed probably closer to where his talent lies), he's been a productive member of the rotation.

I was a broken record last year when people were castigating Leake that he was a good pitcher and was extremely unlucky. Sure, he might be a bit lucky this time around, but his true talent is probably closer to this than it was last year. We know he's got good control and we know he induces a lot of grounders. Guys that can do those things will have success more times than not.

Excellent post.

[lidspinner]

Hate to admit it, but I agree with Kaldaniels, TRF, RedEye, Caveat Emperor, and Reds 44. Leake's "success" is fool's gold.

Managers of good teams around the league laugh their heads off every time Leake shuts down a weak team. Because they know he is useless in the playoffs.

And they know the Reds will have to pay him more in the future to win meaningless games against hapless patsies. He's untradeable because every GM knows he doesn't have good enough stuff to succeed in the majors. Who's gonna trade for a #5 pitcher, when you can bring someone up from the minors to fill that slot at a fraction of the price?

The comparisons to Maddux are nauseating. They both throw/threw with the same arm. That's it. If the Reds had been smart and started him off in the minors, instead of rushing him into the bigs, he might have become another Maddux, but that ship has sailed. Pitching in the majors has ruined him. And Reds fans are paying the price.

General managers would laugh their head off reading your post. If mike Leake wins 25 games a year and all 25 are against sub .500 teams and Mike never starts a playoff game for us then I will still be happy...you have to best the weaker teams just as you have to beat the good teams....mike Leake on this team does not need to start a playoff game....we have 3-4 decent enough starters to where we won't die if mike moves to the pen.....he is still a young pitcher and from what I see he is learning how to pitch with weaker pitches, ala Bronson arroyo.....you don't have to have nasty stuff to succeed as a pitcher in this league....you just have to be smarter than the meathead idiot standing 60 some odd feet away from you.