Francoeur to Reds?

[50YrRedsFan]

yep, very concerning. kinda gives me the idea they are gonna be bargain basement shopping.

That's where our bench players have come from the past couple of years.
When we signed Paul, he had been released. No one wanted Taveras, Patterson, Izturis, etc. That's why Walt scooped them up. Didn't have to pay much. We are now and have been paying the price of very poor bench production from these players. Not likely they would be in the majors except for Walt's midnight bargain basement shopping sprees.

[toledodan]

That's where our bench players have come from the past couple of years.
When we signed Paul, he had been released. No one wanted Taveras, Patterson, Izturis, etc. That's why Walt scooped them up. Didn't have to pay much. We are now and have been paying the price of very poor bench production from these players. Not likely they would be in the majors except for Walt's midnight bargain basement shopping sprees.

winner winner

[westofyou]

winner winner

Anyone who paid attention to the Cards when Walt was GM will recognize that Walt doesn't overpay for mediocre talent, he trolls the proper place for it though.

During his time as Cardinal GM, the Cardinals compiled seven National League Central Division championships (1996, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006), two National League Championships (2004 and 2006), and one World Series Championship (2006). The Cardinals had seven straight winning seasons under Jocketty, including 100+ win seasons in 2004 and 2005. Jocketty has been named the Executive of the Year in MLB three times, in 2000, 2004, & 2010.

But this week he talked out loud about Jeff Francouer and all that doesn't matter anymore eh?

[Raisor]

No problem with kicking the tires and checking under the hood. Whatever the sticker price it was too high

[REDREAD]

well, Francouer ended up getting a AAA contract from the Giants.

That makes it seem unlikely that Walt offered him a ML roster spot.
Because if Francouer was offered a ML roster spot by the Reds (or any other team), he probably accepts that over SF's offer.

Although I guess it's possible that SF has some kind of promise to call him to the majors at some point this season.

[redsmetz]

well, Francouer ended up getting a AAA contract from the Giants.

That makes it seem unlikely that Walt offered him a ML roster spot.
Because if Francouer was offered a ML roster spot by the Reds (or any other team), he probably accepts that over SF's offer.

Although I guess it's possible that SF has some kind of promise to call him to the majors at some point this season.

It's more likely he has an out clause, as is typical with players like this.

[edabbs44]

Much like focusing on how the Reds could have lost games they won, it's apparently important to focus on Walt not acquiring bad players as a sign of his ineffectiveness.

Some of the best acquisitions made in the history of the game were acquisitions of "bad" players.

[traderumor]

Some of the best acquisitions made in the history of the game were acquisitions of "bad" players.

Not sure what that means. Can you provide some examples?

[edabbs44]

Not sure what that means. Can you provide some examples?

Just a few relevant ones off the top of my head that worked out for the acquiring teams, Brandon Phillips and Edwin Encarnacion. Jose Bautista has worked out well. Chris Davis is having an OK season. Same with Nate McLouth.

PS: I know some of these aren't really "history of the game" type acquisitions, however my point still stands. Sometimes good things happen to "bad" players.

[Rojo]

Competence offensively at every position (Giants), instead of two superstars, two competents, and four bums (Reds) is the better offense. Most teams can suffer one black hole in their offense, but three or four night after night is just too much for any true performers to make up for.

Wow, just saw that your back.

Total agreement. Votto and Choo are tent-poling the teams aggregates. There's no "spread" -- all championship offenses have complete lineups, whether mashers or walkers or contacters.

[edabbs44]

Pitching was the main thing, but then, over 162 games, you've got to have more than pitching to wrap up a division championship or even a second wild card. San Fran's offenses were largely forgettable, but maybe there's more to the game of offense than patience and walks. I think the Giants in those championship years were built well (great pitching + zero black holes in their lineup, unlike say, Cozart, Robinson, Hanigan, Mesaraco, etc). Competence offensively at every position (Giants), instead of two superstars, two competents, and four bums (Reds) is the better offense. Most teams can suffer one black hole in their offense, but three or four night after night is just too much for any true performers to make up for.

2012 SFG had a few Cozarts in there. Crawford and Theriot were pretty bad and Pence didn't exactly crush it after arrival.

[traderumor]

Just a few relevant ones off the top of my head that worked out for the acquiring teams, Brandon Phillips and Edwin Encarnacion. Jose Bautista has worked out well. Chris Davis is having an OK season. Same with Nate McLouth.

PS: I know some of these aren't really "history of the game" type acquisitions, however my point still stands. Sometimes good things happen to "bad" players.

Brandon was never considered a bad player by any standard, just a top prospect with a bad attitude. My understanding is that it was a personality conflict with Eric Wedge.

EE--good example. I am as surprised as anyone. I am reminded that sometimes teams fall bass ackwards into performing players since he was DFAd by the team that is now reaping great rewards from the same guy.

Jose Bautista--good example. Hmmmmm, lightning striking twice in the same place, what are the odds? I will be in a long line of unsurprised people when skeletons come out of the closet there of some magic hitting elixir.

Nate McLouth--he's quite an enigma, isn't he? Was he just "good" on awful Pirates teams? Now he's "good" again?

For the most part though, I would say that all of the folks you named had a much better pedigree than Francouer, who has made a well-paid career out of a hot start that everyone predicted would not be sustainable--and it hasn't been. He is not an answer to any question we had. Good luck in the bay, Frenchie.

[Big Klu]

Brandon was never considered a bad player by any standard, just a top prospect with a bad attitude. My understanding is that it was a personality conflict with Eric Wedge.

A friend of mine who is an Indians fan curses Eric Wedge's name every time Brandon Phillips is mentioned.

[Falls City Beer]

2012 SFG had a few Cozarts in there. Crawford and Theriot were pretty bad and Pence didn't exactly crush it after arrival.

True, though Theriot and Crawford would have produced a good bit more than Cozart type numbers had they played in GABP. And the Giants addressed the 2nd base problem by getting Scutaro.

I got a lot of eye rolls when I suggested trading away Stephenson and/or Cingrani for a big time bat like David Wright plus a bullpen arm, but I stand by the contours of a trade like that. This team is sporting perhaps the worst SS, LF, C production in all of baseball. And as Dusty said, there's nothing in the minors to call up. The Reds are in kind of a weird pinch right now. I wouldn't be mad if they held onto their pitchers, but I would consider it a likely white flag for this season.

[Tom Servo]

I got a lot of eye rolls when I suggested trading away Stephenson and/or Cingrani for a big time bat like David Wright plus a bullpen arm, but I stand by the contours of a trade like that. This team is sporting perhaps the worst SS, LF, C production in all of baseball. And as Dusty said, there's nothing in the minors to call up. The Reds are in kind of a weird pinch right now. I wouldn't be mad if they held onto their pitchers, but I would consider it a likely white flag for this season.

I'd do that deal in a minute, but I don't think the Mets would. I think that kind of deal gets you a Chase Headley, who, while good, is essentially the Erik Bedard to David Wright's Mat Latos. One is worth selling the farm for, one is not.