Ludwick: I'm calling fans out

[mdccclxix]

Natural red bull. There is a joke or three in there somewhere

[757690]

Probably RZ's best poster, but just not sure why you always pick on the locals at seemlingly every given chance. Reds have been top 3 in local TV and radio ratings for years. What is your list of baseball towns? I'd argue most come and go.

WoY's Baseball Town list?

Los Angeles - Check
Denver - Check, but not a long history.
San Francisco - Wonderful attendance history at Candelstick cracking 2M twice in 40 years. Is it a baseball town or an iconic stadium setting?
St Louis - Probably, but a good laugh would be to check out the Cards attendance in their lost decade of the 70s. 7 NLCS appearances in the last 11 years
Boston Check out those marvelous attendance numbers from pre 1985. They could only draw 1.7M in 1975...
New York - Yanks never cracked 33K per game until 1998, Mets attendance now terrible
Detroit - An annual attendance laggard until 2007
Milwaukee - Please. 2M twice in history before 2007
Chicago - Cubs attendance pre '84 when they became trendy was laughable, White Sox = MLB wasteland

I'd say LA, Boston, NY, Denver and St Louis would be my top 5 with Boston not really packing the yard until the 1986 Red Sox season.

Honorable mention and easily in the top 10 to the Reds for having such a small local market. They even cracked 2M seven times in the lost decade.

LA is not one of the top baseball towns. They draw only because they have 10 million people.

I have lived in LA for awhile now. A few years ago, I wanted to watch the World Series, and I needed some exercise, so I went to my gym, thinking I could hop on a machine, and watch the game on one of the TV's there. The gym had well over 50 TV's scattered all over the place. Not a single one of them was turned to the World Series. They all were in E! or some reality show. I had to ask them to turn one of the TV's to the World Series.

LA is not a baseball town.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

About to post the same question.

There's a big difference between not being a great baseball city, and not being a baseball city. Saying a city isn't a baseball city implies the city doesn't deserve app MLB team.

Cincinnati is a baseball city. It's not the best baseball city, or even one of the top five. But it's a baseball city.

I'd say it's top 5. Of course, it's all very subjective. It's a combo of things and even the numbers support that. For the size of this market Cincinnati does fine. This city breathes baseball. The monster just needs to be fed more than once every 20 years though.

The previous ownership, the lost decade, and the killer strikes of '81 and '94 did a lot of damage and pushed away much of the generation that made this such town a baseball town. A new generation needs fed now.

Win consistently and they will come. Anywhere.

[Marc D]

So in your mind, this kind of post proves Ludwick is in the wrong for criticizing fans? To me, it does more to corroborate his point than it does to hurt it and this coming from a guy who is tired of hearing about attendance without considering market size.

Fans are bad for calling out this teams failure? I have a simple solution, quit failing. Go win.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Fans are bad for calling out this teams failure? I have a simple solution, quit failing. Go win.

And yet Ludwick wasn't complaining about whiny fans or message board posts. He was complaining about a crowd that had been put to sleep by a sleepy team.

[Mutaman]

1. Cincinnati is not a good baseball town- see New York, Boston, St louis, Milwaukee.

2. Cincinnati folks are way too sensitive and defensive- not really sure why anyone's upset by what Ludwick is saying.

3. Doc can read the good people of Cincinnati like a book and knows exactly what buttons to push.

[Kc61]

I don't think Ludwick was criticizing attendance. The Reds drew pretty well this year, there's nothing to complain about for a smaller city among MLB teams.

I think he was just trying to drum up enthusiastic crowds for the big games ahead. Maybe he didn't express it perfectly, but that's what his intent seems to be. He wants the home crowd driving the opposition nuts this weekend and in October.

The team has been disappointing in some big games in recent years. But it's really a different subject. Let's wait until their season ends (hopefully in weeks, not days) before doing a post-mortem on their play.

[oregonred]

About to post the same question.

There's a big difference between not being a great baseball city, and not being a baseball city. Saying a city isn't a baseball city implies the city doesn't deserve app MLB team.

Cincinnati is a baseball city. It's not the best baseball city, or even one of the top five. But it's a baseball city.

Maybe hard to argue top 5, but easily in the top 10. Few cities identify more with MLB Baseball than the Cincinnati area.

Frankly the Reds attendance patterns given the local market size and general lack of success since 1979 is pretty remarkable. The current ownership is rebuilding a brand across the region with incredible damage from the Schott and Lindner era. I visit every summer for two weeks and the change in the last few years with a sea of red all over town, Kings Island, etc. has been quite noticeable.

[mdccclxix]

I will never doubt the power of kids going back to school again. I'm not sure what the reds players expect all their fans that live decent responsible lives to do. Will they be paying for the babysitter? I mean the trend is so obvious. Reds fans are salt of the earth people by and large.

[oregonred]

1. Cincinnati is not a good baseball town- see New York, Boston, St louis, Milwaukee.

2. Cincinnati folks are way too sensitive and defensive- not really sure why anyone's upset by what Ludwick is saying.

3. Doc can read the good people of Cincinnati like a book and knows exactly what buttons to push.

The next person that says Milwaukee is a great baseball town is going to be forced to memorize and recite the Brewers laughable attendance figures from first moving to Milwaukee in 1969 until 2007 (first year of Miller Park in 2003 as an asterik).

Milwaukee is going to crash like a rock on the attendance front over the next couple of years. They won the NL Central in 2011 and have had a nice run from 2007-2012. The season ticket ramp and decline is a multiyear process.

[mdccclxix]

Milwaukee has a low bar to clear to impress their fans that's for sure

[westofyou]

Maybe hard to argue top 5, but easily in the top 10. Few cities identify more with MLB Baseball than the Cincinnati area.

Frankly the Reds attendance patterns given the local market size and general lack of success since 1979 is pretty remarkable. The current ownership is rebuilding a brand across the region with incredible damage from the Schott and Lindner era. I visit every summer for two weeks and the change in the last few years with a sea of red all over town, Kings Island, etc. has been quite noticeable.

Yes, this.

They're on the upswing and yes a top ten baseball city.

Not everyone is the best and I think the area can do more.

I beat up on the fans?

Maybe..I see the numbers, I know the history it has a pattern.

But I also speak to to my friends back there, my five nephews all under 13 who speak of the Reds rarely, their parents... so maybe it's me or my wife's family.., who knows?

But like I said I'm colored poorly as I don't have the choice... And granted there are fans like Kitty here who are sayin to me Shut yer face

[Brutus]

Fans are bad for calling out this teams failure? I have a simple solution, quit failing. Go win.

So they've made the playoff three out of the last four seasons and you're upset at them for failing. Gotcha.

[oregonred]

LA is not one of the top baseball towns. They draw only because they have 10 million people.

I have lived in LA for awhile now. A few years ago, I wanted to watch the World Series, and I needed some exercise, so I went to my gym, thinking I could hop on a machine, and watch the game on one of the TV's there. The gym had well over 50 TV's scattered all over the place. Not a single one of them was turned to the World Series. They all were in E! or some reality show. I had to ask them to turn one of the TV's to the World Series.

LA is not a baseball town.

I don't disagree as the local TV ratings (pre-Puig) have been terrible, but the Dodgers have always drawn well and the Angels have usually been solid (some lean years in the mid 90s and the 70s was a joke). Of course the absolute best year round baseball weather in the United States doesn't hurt at the gate.

LA and NY are arguable due to the sheer mamoth size of both markets. The Mets draw horribly and the Yankees never broke 2.63M until 1998.

[Marc D]

So they've made the playoff three out of the last four seasons and you're upset at them for failing. Gotcha.

and your happy with the post season results. Gotcha.