Chris Carpenter likely out for 2013.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

gahh and don't get me started at those defensive plays he makes. He's hot dogging it to make it look like he's a better centerfielder than he is. Horrible... just HORRIBLE!

Wait...why are we talking about Jim Edmonds?

[kaldaniels]

Why is Bronson Arroyo continously being lumped in with trash and garbage on this thread?

[OGB]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

Is the level of disdain from Reds fans toward the cardinals on this board representative of the whole reds fan base? Because i gotta say, cardinals fans don't feel that way about the reds at all. They don't like Phillips, but neither does anyone outside of Cincinnati. There is a rivalry from the brawl and both teams being competitive right now but it seems like reds consider the cardinals their #1 hated rival when there are probably 5 teams that I consider the cardinals to have bigger rivalries with. Those teams being chicago, KC, NYM, Astros (though that one is over), LAD.

I've heard this kind of argument before, and frankly, it's insulting. I've been told by Browns fans that it's a joke we consider them such a rival because THEY don't even put us on the same plane of existence with their hatred of Baltimore and Pitt. Relax, Browns fan, we're rivals because we're in the same division, in the same state, fans of one team are more likely to know and regularly see fans if another. If any fan base should consider the other less of a rival, it's Bengals fans, since we've been beating them far more often in recent history.

As far as StL goes, you're our rival because you're really good, because we compete for the same division, we play 5 or 6 series a year, and because our respective teams clearly don't get along. Baseball rivalries are fluid. Some liked Boston/NYY are steeped in tradition. Some like Chi/StL are related to geography. But most have to do with who your main competition is at the time.
For a long time, the Reds rivals were La. Then it was Houston. Now neither of those teams are relevant rivalry wise.
Ill give you KC and Chi, but if you asked most NYM or LA fans if the Cardinals were a rival, rheyd probably laugh and say ""What what are you talking about?"

[MikeThierry]

Originally Posted by OGB

I've heard this kind of argument before, and frankly, it's insulting. I've been told by Browns fans that it's a joke we consider them such a rival because THEY don't even put us on the same plane of existence with their hatred of Baltimore and Pitt. Relax, Browns fan, we're rivals because we're in the same division, in the same state, fans of one team are more likely to know and regularly see fans if another. If any fan base should consider the other less of a rival, it's Bengals fans, since we've been beating them far more often in recent history.

As far as StL goes, you're our rival because you're really good, because we compete for the same division, we play 5 or 6 series a year, and because our respective teams clearly don't get along. Baseball rivalries are fluid. Some liked Boston/NYY are steeped in tradition. Some like Chi/StL are related to geography. But most have to do with who your main competition is at the time.
For a long time, the Reds rivals were La. Then it was Houston. Now neither of those teams are relevant rivalry wise.
Ill give you KC and Chi, but if you asked most NYM or LA fans if the Cardinals were a rival, rheyd probably laugh and say ""What what are you talking about?"

I don't think there's any question that Cincy is a rival because they belong in the same division as the Cards. I never looked at them as a heated rival though until 2010ish, which is different. Heated rivals are what we're talking about.

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by MikeThierry

There's a much larger sample size for Leake to correlate what kind of pitcher he may or may not be. Kelly's sample size is too small to determine what kind of pitcher he will be.

So then nothing is really that clear after all, yes? So we're in accord...

[Tom Servo]

Originally Posted by M2

No, my opinion is such because Arroyo's been a quality, dependable major league pitcher for a decade. It's a rarity and any Reds fan who turns their nose up at it is either a newbie ignorant of team history or suffering from selective amnesia.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

Why is Bronson Arroyo continously being lumped in with trash and garbage on this thread?

Are you referring to Westbrook as "trash and garbage"?

FWIW, I'm OK with that.

[Salukifan2]

Originally Posted by OGB

I've heard this kind of argument before, and frankly, it's insulting. I've been told by Browns fans that it's a joke we consider them such a rival because THEY don't even put us on the same plane of existence with their hatred of Baltimore and Pitt. Relax, Browns fan, we're rivals because we're in the same division, in the same state, fans of one team are more likely to know and regularly see fans if another. If any fan base should consider the other less of a rival, it's Bengals fans, since we've been beating them far more often in recent history.

As far as StL goes, you're our rival because you're really good, because we compete for the same division, we play 5 or 6 series a year, and because our respective teams clearly don't get along. Baseball rivalries are fluid. Some liked Boston/NYY are steeped in tradition. Some like Chi/StL are related to geography. But most have to do with who your main competition is at the time.
For a long time, the Reds rivals were La. Then it was Houston. Now neither of those teams are relevant rivalry wise.
Ill give you KC and Chi, but if you asked most NYM or LA fans if the Cardinals were a rival, rheyd probably laugh and say ""What what are you talking about?"

My point was our rivalry is not one of hatred in my eyes. Hate is a word used regularly by posters on the board when talking about the cardinals franchise, their personnel, and their fans. Maybe im just never at the right place or right time, but i dont hear the same amount of hate speech about the reds from cards fans as i see from reds fans on this board towards the cardinals.

Cardinal fans hate phillips and cueto. But they all still really respect walt jocketty, and teams that plays a hard nose brand of baseball like the reds do. People here have brought up stuff cards fans say on stl today and i admit i dont go there so i havent seen it. I do frequent "birdsonthebat" and "cardsclubhouse" and while people there vent their frustrations about the reds kicking cardinal butt, they dont hate on everything the franchise has done or stands for.

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by Salukifan2

Cardinal fans hate phillips and cueto. But they all still really respect walt jocketty, and teams that plays a hard nose brand of baseball like the reds do. People here have brought up stuff cards fans say on stl today and i admit i dont go there so i havent seen it. I do frequent "birdsonthebat" and "cardsclubhouse" and while people there vent their frustrations about the reds kicking cardinal butt, they dont hate on everything the franchise has done or stands for.

I'd have trouble hating us too.

[Scrap Irony]

The difference between Cincinnati Red Arroyo and St. Louis Cardinal Westbrook is the same difference between 2011 Chris Carpenter and 2011 Homer Bailey.

[foxfire123]

Originally Posted by vaticanplum

double post, computer hates me

Nope, it was just. that. good. that your computer joyously wanted to share it again.

[RichRed]

Bronson Arroyo's nickname is "Saturn Nuts." Jake Westbrook's nickname is..."Jake."

Advantage, Arroyo.

[smixsell]

I'm really broken up about Carp's setback. I take great comfort though in knowing that at least now he'll have plenty of time to explain things to his son.

[Spitball]

Carpenter's $10.5M decision leaves irks some fans

08:15 AM ET 02.12 | In the eyes of many, Chris Carpenter's refusal to officially retire has more to do with holding out hope than anything else. Unless there's a baseball (and medical) miracle, [Carpenter] won't pitch for the Cardinals this season. And he's probably done for his career. The Cardinals owe Carpenter a guaranteed $10.5 million this year and he'll collect the money unless he relinquished it by formally retiring. I wouldn't expect Carpenter to retire now. ... The reality of Carpenter being paid $10.5 million this season has caused a mild outbreak of sourness on the Internet, with a small minority of fans calling Carpenter "greedy" and demanding that he retire and give the Cardinals a chance to put the money to better use.

St. Louis Post-Dispatch

[WMR]

"Son, even if it's immoral, don't ever leave a damn nickel on the table."

There, he won't have to come up with an explanation now.