The Reds & and the new DH debate

[kaldaniels]

It won't make a giant difference, but if we are running any numbers, I wouldn't do it under the assumption the pitcher is an automatic out.

[Dom Heffner]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

It won't make a giant difference, but if we are running any numbers, I wouldn't do it under the assumption the pitcher is an automatic out.

As long as they are that much worse, then it really doesn't matter.

The eighth guy gets pitched around, the pitcher bunts...

[puca]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

As long as they are that much worse, then it really doesn't matter.

The eighth guy gets pitched around, the pitcher bunts...

If guess if I looked at the game on such a micro level I would prefer the DH as well.

Even in the NL the pitcher doesn't HAVE to hit, but unlike the AL there are consequences. Whether you choose to see it or not there is a lot of strategy built around that one simple difference. And that strategy doesn't begin in the late innings. It is a powerful disadvantage for the offensive team to have their pitcher leading off an inning - consequently it is a powerful advantage for the defensive team to force it.

You want to pitch around my #8 hitter to get to my pitcher, that's fine but you are increasing my chances of scoring a run the next inning. Or if I'm willing to pull my pitcher out of the game I can increase my chances of scoring this inning.

[puca]

Originally Posted by kaldaniels

It won't make a giant difference, but if we are running any numbers, I wouldn't do it under the assumption the pitcher is an automatic out.

You are absolutely right - I was simply was rolling with the punches. Some pitchers are at least as good as the guy batting in front of them.

[M2]

Originally Posted by cincinnati chili

I don't expect to change anyone else's mind, but I hate the DH. If the DH is made universal, baseball will get significantly less of my attention and my money. This is not an idle threat. I will hold this grudge effectively. And you can't really call me a "traditionalist" for feeling this way, because the DH has been in effect since 1 was one years old. It's been a reality since I became aware of baseball, and the more I learn about baseball, the more I don't like it.

Scarcity is interesting on a macro level. When conditions of scarcity exist, decisions have to be made. Decisions are interesting. Those of you who say it's less interesting on a micro level to watch a pitcher hit than to watch a good position player hit are correct; however, this has a highly positive effect on the macro level. Even if I have to suffer through a couple at-bats per night from a starting pitcher, I like the fact that if the hitters in your starting lineup fail to score runs, your ace pitcher might have to come out of the game in the 7th inning. It's a team sport, after all.

The way the game is now, if you fail to field a balance team, your team gets punished. Punishment is awesome:

Punishment: If your team can't score runs, and if your starting pitcher (like 99% of starting pitchers) can't hit either, he might have to get pinch hit for in the late innings

Punishment: If you have a slugger who's a butcher with the glove, then he should be forced to humiliate himself and amuse the rest of us by having to play the field.

Bud Selig is going to retire in the next few years (I assume), and this issue is one of the only things I care about in terms his successor. I could live with a 2 or 3 year work stoppage in exchange for another 40-50 years in which the Reds get to play DH-free baseball. Let me put it another way:

I'd be just fine with Mahmoud Abedinejad as the next commissioner of baseball, so long as he will prevent expansion of the DH.

Single best thing ever written on the subject of the DH.

[M2]

Originally Posted by jojo

Anyone who'd rather watch Aaron Harang hit than Joe Mauer is probably overdosing on hyperbole.

I'd rather have Joe Mauer play catcher.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by M2

I'd rather have Joe Mauer play catcher.

And you would've had the pleasure of seeing him for about 70 games last year...

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by jojo

And you would've had the pleasure of seeing him for about 70 games last year...

Or more if his league didn't have the DH as a crutch.

Health is a skillset too

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by puca

I disagree. .

All good points you made.

I guess it all comes down to the fact that I think watching the pitcher hit is a real drag.
Even when the opposing pitcher is coming up, and it helps the Reds dance around an offensive threat, there's just a lot less excitement.
Runners in scoring position, 1b open, 2 outs, #8 hitter up, the threat is pretty much over. We still have to sit through 2 at bats which have a low chance of actually making anything happen.. It's all my opinion, but that's not exciting baseball to me.

[puca]

Originally Posted by jojo

And you would've had the pleasure of seeing him for about 70 games last year...

Funny seeing how he started 102 games in a non-DH role last year.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Or more if his league didn't have the DH as a crutch.

Health is a skillset too

Hyperbole alert: The DH sucks because it robs the fan of seeing pitchers flail and guys gimp.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by puca

Funny seeing how he started 102 games in a non-DH role last year.

Not at catcher, and there is nothing funny about that.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by jojo

Hyperbole alert: The DH sucks because it robs the fan of seeing pitchers flail and guys gimp.

Browbeat alert - No reason ever will be worth a DH in my world

[M2]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Or more if his league didn't have the DH as a crutch.

Health is a skillset too

Bingo.

[puca]

Originally Posted by jojo

Not at catcher, and there is nothing funny about that.

So you are saying if not for the DH Mauer wouldn't have been able to start those 30 games at 1b? I have a hard time following that logic.

Nevermind. I wasn't following the back and forth close enough.


However, even without the DH we wouldn't be robbed of seeing Joe Mauer bat. Maybe we wouldn't see Justin Morneau, Joe Mauer and and Ryan Doumit all get 4 ABs in the same game, but I could certainly live with that (even if I watched the Twins).