Reds Trade Scott Dunn for D'Angelo Jimenez - Page 10 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

RANDY IN INDY · 07-09-2003, 11:29 AM

I was only able to catch one of Jimenez's at bats last night, but looking at his stance and watching his approach, he reminded me of the guy that took his place in Chicago. I hope we can get some of the same results out of him, minus the saliva.

Redsland · 07-09-2003, 11:47 AM

Let's not pin all of our hopes on the guy. We don't want to expectorate too much.

RANDY IN INDY · 07-09-2003, 11:55 AM

My "expectorations" are very small and dry at this point!

Far East · 07-09-2003, 12:09 PM

I'm trying real hard to resist saying that he's the spitting image of anybody. :thumbdn:

westofyou · 07-09-2003, 12:43 PM

From BP

http://premium.baseballprospectus.co...articleid=2074

OK, enough with the Wag the Dog thing. As Joe Sheehan pointed out, the trades do address the team's single biggest deficiency--its lack of potency against right-handed pitching--and the AL Central is a division in which a couple of extra wins could make a lot of difference.

But there's a lost man in all of this, and it's D'Angelo Jimenez, who was designated for assignment on Wednesday and traded to the Reds on Sunday for a minor league closer and a stick of bubblegum. Without getting into the whole debate about whether there were better ways to clear roster space--of course there were--Jimenez's story is revealing for a couple of reasons. In the first place, it indicates just how much the organization's time horizon has narrowed. Whatever the Sox can squeeze out of Alomar from here on out, Jimenez could have been a cheap, adequate solution in the middle infield for years to come. That they were willing to jettison him so quickly and for so little suggests that he carried baggage of the sort that only star performers can get away with, that Williams knows he needs success n-o-w in order to save his job, or a little bit of both.

Jimenez's demise is also an indictment of new hitting coach Greg Walker. Jimenez's plate discipline, rehabilitated under Gary Ward, had completely fallen apart under Walker:

Under Ward (includes 2002): 38 BB, 28 K
Under Walker: 10 BB, 28 K

Although the cause and effect can be tough to pinpoint here--pitchers have less incentive to throw carefully to a hitter like Jimenez when he isn't hitting the ball hard--the change is dramatic enough to suggest that coaching is at least partly responsible. Oftentimes, the natural instinct of a struggling player is to swing at the first good pitch he sees, but it's precisely in the event of a slump that a player needs to be reminded to keep his approach at the plate intact. In Jimenez's case, he responded to his struggles by transforming into a hacker, making his problems worse and turning him into a liability at the top of the lineup. The problem had grown bad enough that it required a solution, and Jimenez didn't have any options left, but one wonders whether it had to be this way. Jimenez is a player who requires a patient organization, and for better or for worse, that doesn't describe the White Sox right now.

RANDY IN INDY · 07-09-2003, 01:26 PM

Interesting. Good article.

Red Leader · 07-09-2003, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC
Interesting. Good article.

I agree. I really like Jimenez, and think he was a very good pickup for the Reds. The only thing that scared me in that article is that they said he should be dealt to a team with patience. I don't see the Reds as that team, not with Larkin, Olmedo, Lopez, and Castro on the roster, not the way they have talked about him so far, like he's the last player on the roster. I truly hope that they give him a fair shot to show what he's got. I would bet anyone that he puts up better numbers than Lopez over the next 3 or so years.

REDREAD · 07-09-2003, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by guernsey
What is with D'Angelo Jimenez? The White Sox raved about his attitude and work ethic during spring training, but soured on him in the first half, designated him for assignment last week and then traded him to the Reds on Sunday. One major-league executive says Jimenez possesses "Alomar-type ability," but is stubborn and doesn't listen to advice. ...

I assume the executive they are talking about is Bowden.
My question is this: Is it Bowden or Jimenez that is stubborn and doesn't listen to advice?

the sentence isn't clear

gm · 07-09-2003, 02:45 PM

"the natural instinct of a struggling player is to swing at the first good pitch he sees, but it's precisely in the event of a slump that a player needs to be reminded to keep his approach at the plate intact. In Jimenez's case, he responded to his struggles by transforming into a hacker, making his problems worse and turning him into a liability at the top of the lineup"

Based on the few ABs I saw last night, DJ has got his patient approach back. Not sure how much Robson has worked with him so far, or if the "D'Angelo the hacker" will resurface in Cincy

sweaver · 07-09-2003, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krusty
If he is so damn good, why did the White Sox acquire Alomar?

For the same reason they got Todd Ritchie for Kip Wells and Josh Fogg.

Spitball · 07-09-2003, 06:23 PM

If the White Sox are so concerned about attitude, why on Earth did they acquire Carl Everette?

pedro · 07-09-2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by REDREAD
I assume the executive they are talking about is Bowden.
My question is this: Is it Bowden or Jimenez that is stubborn and doesn't listen to advice? the sentence isn't clear

ain't that the truth.

Raisor · 04-16-2004, 02:33 PM

Being stuck at work, no game yet, and no access to any other websites (NASTY firewall) gives Phil plenty of time to seach the archives. Looking back at this thread brings to mind, how do ya'll (especially those of you that hated the deal, and you know who you are) feel about the trade now?

07-09-2003, 02:45 PM	#144
gm All dyslexics must untie! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: SW Portland, OR Posts: 8,604	"the natural instinct of a struggling player is to swing at the first good pitch he sees, but it's precisely in the event of a slump that a player needs to be reminded to keep his approach at the plate intact. In Jimenez's case, he responded to his struggles by transforming into a hacker, making his problems worse and turning him into a liability at the top of the lineup" Based on the few ABs I saw last night, DJ has got his patient approach back. Not sure how much Robson has worked with him so far, or if the "D'Angelo the hacker" will resurface in Cincy __________________ Never overlook the obvious

07-09-2003, 06:23 PM	#146
Spitball Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Posts: 5,491	If the White Sox are so concerned about attitude, why on Earth did they acquire Carl Everette? __________________ "Colorless green ideas sleep furiously."- Noam Chomsky

04-16-2004, 02:33 PM	#148
Raisor Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,671	Re: Reds Trade Scott Dunn for D'Angelo Jimenez Being stuck at work, no game yet, and no access to any other websites (NASTY firewall) gives Phil plenty of time to seach the archives. Looking back at this thread brings to mind, how do ya'll (especially those of you that hated the deal, and you know who you are) feel about the trade now? __________________ "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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07-09-2003, 11:29 AM	#136
RANDY IN INDY Matt's Dad Join Date: May 2000 Location: Brownsburg, Indiana Posts: 14,499	I was only able to catch one of Jimenez's at bats last night, but looking at his stance and watching his approach, he reminded me of the guy that took his place in Chicago. I hope we can get some of the same results out of him, minus the saliva.

07-09-2003, 11:47 AM	#137
Redsland You know his story Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 7,713	Let's not pin all of our hopes on the guy. We don't want to expectorate too much.

07-09-2003, 11:55 AM	#138
RANDY IN INDY Matt's Dad Join Date: May 2000 Location: Brownsburg, Indiana Posts: 14,499	My "expectorations" are very small and dry at this point!

07-09-2003, 12:09 PM	#139
Far East Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,372	I'm trying real hard to resist saying that he's the spitting image of anybody. :thumbdn:

07-09-2003, 12:43 PM	#140
westofyou breath Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: PDX Posts: 39,335	From BP http://premium.baseballprospectus.co...articleid=2074 OK, enough with the Wag the Dog thing. As Joe Sheehan pointed out, the trades do address the team's single biggest deficiency--its lack of potency against right-handed pitching--and the AL Central is a division in which a couple of extra wins could make a lot of difference. But there's a lost man in all of this, and it's D'Angelo Jimenez, who was designated for assignment on Wednesday and traded to the Reds on Sunday for a minor league closer and a stick of bubblegum. Without getting into the whole debate about whether there were better ways to clear roster space--of course there were--Jimenez's story is revealing for a couple of reasons. In the first place, it indicates just how much the organization's time horizon has narrowed. Whatever the Sox can squeeze out of Alomar from here on out, Jimenez could have been a cheap, adequate solution in the middle infield for years to come. That they were willing to jettison him so quickly and for so little suggests that he carried baggage of the sort that only star performers can get away with, that Williams knows he needs success n-o-w in order to save his job, or a little bit of both. Jimenez's demise is also an indictment of new hitting coach Greg Walker. Jimenez's plate discipline, rehabilitated under Gary Ward, had completely fallen apart under Walker: Under Ward (includes 2002): 38 BB, 28 K Under Walker: 10 BB, 28 K Although the cause and effect can be tough to pinpoint here--pitchers have less incentive to throw carefully to a hitter like Jimenez when he isn't hitting the ball hard--the change is dramatic enough to suggest that coaching is at least partly responsible. Oftentimes, the natural instinct of a struggling player is to swing at the first good pitch he sees, but it's precisely in the event of a slump that a player needs to be reminded to keep his approach at the plate intact. In Jimenez's case, he responded to his struggles by transforming into a hacker, making his problems worse and turning him into a liability at the top of the lineup. The problem had grown bad enough that it required a solution, and Jimenez didn't have any options left, but one wonders whether it had to be this way. Jimenez is a player who requires a patient organization, and for better or for worse, that doesn't describe the White Sox right now.

07-09-2003, 01:26 PM	#141
RANDY IN INDY Matt's Dad Join Date: May 2000 Location: Brownsburg, Indiana Posts: 14,499	Interesting. Good article.